Bakki Shower/Bacteria House vs Conventional Submerged Filtration System.

[Valarc]

My job...

As I said, George, I won't continue debating your warped view of science on this thread. I'm bored with it. As far as your insinuation that I'm in a bad environment - that's really laughable. My next project will be working with a NASA funded researcher in colloids. Before that, I was working on research funded by the NSF. I've worked for a lockheed martin subcontractor (ever heard of AEGIS?). I worked at Princeton Plasma Physics Lab - US Department of Energy funding, anyone? I've done the military and DOE government contract work, and I'll tell you - no chance in hell am I going back. Everything they do is all about politics. Truth and science are an unwelcome distraction. I'll stick to pure academics any day, thanks - research for the sake of knowledge, not whose pocketbook it will fill.

JR - what do you want for that bridge? Would you consider a trade? I have some wonderful land in the Everglades.

[junglegeorge12]

ooh, escaped all the politics by subbing for NASA, that is funny, yep nasa is totally unreliant on politics. So are their subs, and so reliable they are. Are you going to fix the flying tile syndrome they have been having lately? It's all about science not money right? How truly noble. I need a hankie.



I take it then you are rooted down there. You can probably raise alot of koi in the everglades. Unfortunately, they will be government property. Hey, I just realized your view may be the way to finally let Dean have his way and remove all security measures from all US facilities and the whole country. Then we can build deep voodoo love relationships with al-queada and back door love gatherings with chavez, you know they are just waiting for us to be nicer to them. All they really want is to smoke a peace pipe with John Kerry and Dean anyway. I don't undersand why Bush cannot see that and just put away all this silly security stuff, so we can all make fluffy teddy bears together. We can all have such a shinier existence if we put all of our flower power together. Imagine, so many flowers, all together, we could make colloidal demonstrations then. What noble purpose we could all feel as we chant kumbaya, and as N korea takes the White House we can give them all colloidal floral arrangements for being so understanding of our deeper inner needs. As they line us up for execution we can thank them for helping us realize our true destiny as flower power martyrs.

Or we can all live and apply my 'warped view of science' so we can do so.

[Valarc]

Wow... sometimes your delusional rantings manage to surprise me. Not that they should... I've seen many of the same nonsense come out of you in the past. But still... wow.

Oh, and NASA does a lot more than space shuttles, and their grants can be applied for in the same ways as NSF funding - it's not all about the lockheed contracts and aerospace. Of course, never being affiliated with NASA, unlike my colleagues, you wouldn't know that. But then, not knowing what you're talking about has never stopped you in the past, has it?

[koiczar]

Hey you guys - you need to take your political crap outside. THIS BOARD IS NOT FOR PERSONAL SLANDER - GROW THE HELL UP OR GET OFF!!

When you both learn to play like the rest of the big kids in here , then by all means your welcome to chat - otherwise shut the hell up!!@

[Valarc]

Nowhere did I say anything political - you can thank junglegeorge for that.

I love how this idiot can sit here and attack me, question the validity of the scientific work I do, and when I defend myself, I'm told I'm acting childish. I have "george" on ignore, and generally try to avoid reading his posts at all, and without fail every time I do decide to click the "view this post" link, he's bringing up my name, starting crap with me. What a bunch of hypocrisy, when I get blamed for this lunatic's ramblings just because I find it neccesary to defend myself when someone questions my profession.

Last I checked, it's not your board, "koiczar", and I don't exactly see a ton of posts you've made here - so instead of contributing NOTHING to the conversation but to tell someone to shut up, how about we hear your opinion on bakki showers? I've at least tried to discuss the filters, what have you contributed?

[PapaBear]

Thanks for making some valid points.
Continued digression;
Since virtually anything emits electrical impulses on some scale trying to dissect IR/FIR in a biofilter is a bit over the top for the average hobbyist. The bacteria themselves are living organisms which produce electrical impulses in order to exist as does every living thing. How they live and perform in any given environment is completely dependent on all of the variables in that environment. If two ponds were constructed of the exact same materials, utilizing identical pumps and filters, and of precisely the same dimensions, the two ponds would still be unique and perform differently depending upon outside variables like water source, latitude, elevation relative to sea level, weather conditions, etc. What works in each pond indiviually is all that really matters at the end of the day.
Regression;
It would be interesting to know the reason for the relatively high Nitrate in your tap water. We had similar issues in my birthplace as several of the wells supplying drinking water to our community had nitrate levels in the 20-40 ppm range while others in the same aquifer did not. Your system must have been working very well to maintain the reasonable nitrate levels you had to begin with considering the system was constantly being fed fresh nitrate from an outside source. It will be interesting to see how long it takes for it to drop with the 10% water change removed from the equation. I also wonder how it will affect your other parameters over time.
Please feel free to digress/regress in your own thread as often as you wish. I'm pretty sure it still belongs to you .
One last question (digression). Did the unused brain belong to an engineer or an attorney? I've heard it both ways and was hoping you could settle it .

Quote: Originally Posted by dtbh Just to digress from this intended thread, how many of you actually know or want to know how your media works at the molecular level? I have been in this hobby long enough to know that even with the same filter design at the recommended size the same water quality may not be obtained for numerous reasons. Taking BH and FIR for example, what difference does it make whether it is or is not FIR that is the effect? If BH works with or without FIR it makes no difference to common hobbyists like me. I am sure most of us out there are "common" hobbyists. Put it the other way, if BH doesn't work huge amounts of FIR again is immaterial. It only matters to those who are doing a study on ceramics, and those who want to improve on the material and hence want to know what caused its' effect on water quality. And the few who just want to know. I have tried so many materials as you can see with the materials I still am using. Those that was not effective or a hassle to use have been discarded. Those included my sand filter and bioballs. Some using sand filters swear by it. No matter what they say it just did not work in my pond. Similarly I started off with a filter design 30% of pond surface area with Izeki nets, mid-water source, bottom drain flushing twice a day, daily siphoning and 10% water change. I was almost given a written guarantee by the vendor as it worked great for many of my senior koi hobbyist friends. Theoretically at the molecular level it should work. It just never did for me. Hence I never take what is reported anywhere to be definitive proof that anything works the way it does in this hobby. BH included. This is one of the reasons why I am doing this experiment. I have gained enough personal experience to be more adaptive rather than adoptive. Again FIR or no FIR people like me would still need to try it to be convinced that it works. Not that I would want to teach anyone to do business, if I am selling this product I will concentrate on how good it is and mention on the sideline that perhaps the good effect on water quality is contributed by FIR which need to be further studied being a relatively new filter medium. Again I have digressed..sorry to my thread. Back to the present. I have stopped adding new water yesterday. Will see what the nitrates will be over the next few days. Meanwhile kois are doing great and other objective parameters are status quo. Have a good day. Dtbh.

[James P]

JungleG, you do a terrible dis-service to Momotaro in these various message boards. The fact alone that you've been 'uninvited' back to many of them is proof of that. As a distributor of this product, do you think its wise to insult prospective customers? And do you not think all these snotty antics reflect badly on Brian and Maeda?

Now I see you have tried another tact here- the 'reasonable' guy. I think I suggested you behave more like Mike S. and you seem to have tried. But I see you here slowly reverting to type again.

I find it a bit disturbing that you are a distributor, advocate of FIR and 'expert' on FIR but don't know the patent ingredients of BH!!! Yet a lowly amateur like myself , does know it! I researched that first off when I heard about the magical powers of FIR?! And you have never bothered? Just weird US defense department stuff? All mouth and no real input in any of these debates.

Really, now-- how can ANYBODY take you seriously at this point?

JR

[junglegeorge12]

JR-Why do you cast black shadows over others when you are not even interested in real science? Why not hand the list over so I can verify the science on it? What have you got to lose??? Nice try to spin it around tho! Aren't you interested in the real expert analysis of it? I am.

I guess the science does not matter to you. Pity.

I think it behooves Momotaro for the whole industry to see their most deceptive critics refuse to participate in scientific discovery and real tests on something they want to vehemently attack. It lets everyone see who is really interested in good science and who isn't. So I will wait for it from you.

Mike S is who Mike S is, and I do both respect and appreciate him. Glad you noticed he is a quality guy.

I suppose neither of you could have imagined I might actually be who I say I am. My single greastest strength JR is that I always tell the truth, and only talk about what I do know about.

as for your comment-
'All mouth and no real input in any of these debates'-

-I helped dtbh find his real problem and nitrate source.

-The link to the real FIR research is the biggest contribution on this thread other than dtbh's experiment. It proves the link between FIR ceramics and real, irrefutable biological effects. You certainly haven't made any contribution yourself. http://www.ebmonline.org/cgi/content/full/228/6/724 There it is again, solid cutting edge research.

-the work we did with sensors applies very much to subject of ceramics FIR properties and is the only contribution by someone with actual experience with such ceramics. Sad you cannot see that.

as for the rest of it, yeah you are right, I am having fun making jokes and mouthing off. I apologize to the rest of you, they just make it soo easy and fun. The previous rant was about poking fun at val's way of thinking and seeing things. He obviously really appreciated it. It was not meant to offend or accost anyone else, so sorry if it did.

-val, so you can know the truth instead living off of your wrong assumptions and expecting everyone else to as well (no wonder the DOE wasn't interested in your 'real science'), here is one of my family's websites. It lists a couple of customers on there that might interest you, one of them being NASA. As for NASA's projects, I do not think I ever indicated anything about what I think they do or do not do. Another one of your delusional assumptions. http://www.portch.com/serv02.htm


-Papa Bear, that was a good post and very true. The best way to know if it works is to buy some and try it. Why does not really matter to the end user does it? Just like a computer. Why only matters to those who make and sell them.

JR-as for the comment about me being 'uninvited to many of them'--another lie invented by you. The only one I was booted from was the one you control, koiphen. By the way, I can get back on there now, I just choose not to. I think half the folks here have been banned from there due to your childish antics. I guess it bugs you you cannot control them all. Maybe now you are hoping brian will ban me if you convince him I am 'bad' for him in some way????

If you need BH media just go to www.keirinponds.com or www.yumekoi.com or to momotaro's site. Try it and see for yourself who is telling the truth. It is not cheap, but it is good, the best, and you can get it one box at a time if you need to, alot of folks do. No shame in that.

[Valarc]

Unless you're powering your BHM with an electric heater, and locking your koi in a little tiny box being irradiated from three sides - that paper is utterly meaningless.

I'll say this again for the millionth time - the measurable effect of infrared radiation is heat. Nothing more, nothing less. Yes, using an electric heater to bombard lab rats with heat is going to make them heal faster - heat helps wounds heal. There's no magical property here. A powered source of infrared radiation is a particularly efficient way to deliver heat, but it's still just heat.

And george, what happened to your water cluster fantasy? You seem to be focusing on the mystical healing powers lately and getting away from breaking up water clusters and freeing up the trapped compounds. You were absolutely convinced of the validity of that fantasy, too, yet now you seem to have abandoned it?

[James P]

Jungle G, although it is somewhat fun trading insults with you, it also gets boring at times. You can continue to post 'scientific' stuff about the existence of FIR and I can continue to try and broaden your views regarding the Asian mind set about certain mythical sciences. For every INTERNET article you post I can post three about FIR underwear curing cancer and tap water devices that create magical water to cure internal disease. My all time favorite is the Korean FIR unit that allows you to talk directly to god! Put this hype in the hands of koi dealers ( I love the Japanese haiku about ‘koi dealers’- ever hear it?) And the koi world needs to brace itself! LOLs

Ok here is a story for the wise:

Curious George and the Mail Box

CURIOUS George lived across the street from the neighborhood mail box. Each day, George would observe mail going into these strange shaped receptacles and never saw any mail being picked up- at least not when it was supposed to be picked up? Yet the mail would come to his house every day and around the same time? It was during this time that the budding scientist saw that the Government was experimenting with matter/antimatter transfer. He had also seen a science fiction B movie called "The Fly’, were objects could be transferred from enclosure to enclosure using molecular scrambling and re-connecting. It seemed the Government had actually done it in his mind? A quick search of the web showed that many websites, both scientific and science fiction, had articles about this concept. And most intriguing of all, the Post Office WAS a GOVERNMENT organization! Wasn’t it plausible that government organizations might share secret information? George began a serious investigation.

Observation #1- all mail boxes were built the same, had the same dimensions and the same coloring.

Observation #2 - all mail boxes had odd shaped roofs and tiny openings that would not allow for ‘looking in’

Observation #3 - all mail boxes were near street corners and also traffic lights- a power source.

Observation # 4 - all mail boxes are bolted to the ground just like the transporters in the movie "the Fly".

Observation # 5 - all mail boxes are built much more sturdy and larger than they need to be to handle ‘paper’ mail.

Observation # 6 - all mail boxes are owned by the only entity large enough to create antimatter devices- the GOVERNMENT

Soon George was ready to move on to the experimental stage. He noted that envelopes came in standard sizes. No reason for this unless the machine could only de-construct certain sizes according to pre-programmed software. Further, all envelopes had a ‘glue’ on them and a stamp. Meaning that a solvent was needed to trigger the reaction and a bar code on the stamp would prompt the equipment inside the mail box. No surprise that the stamp was GOVERNMENT issued as they controlled the entire process- it was all falling in place now! Several stamps were held back for further research in the kitchen microwave. It was also possible that removing the stamp from the paper backing activated the stamp when it was exposed to the air? This would be tested by placing the roll of stamps in his mouth and holding his breath while removing the stamp from its paper backing with his tongue.

The envelopes were placed in the ignition slot of the mail box ( which George had come to refer to as the Fhototomic Inter-correspondence Radiation unit or FIR unit for short). Although the mail man was supposed to pick up at 5:00 PM, he did not! Instead, he pretended to pick up at 6:00 PM. Obviously, thought George, the mail man was picking up inbound ‘reconstituted’ mail from another receptor sight that was scheduled to arrive after the local mail had been ‘sent’ as scrabbled matter to another sight- at 5:00 PM. This was all starting to make sense----



Episode Two of Curious George and the Mail Box to follow--------