Bakki Shower/Bacteria House vs Conventional Submerged Filtration System.

[butterfly]

Quote: Originally Posted by junglegeorge12 Nice to see you say BH is an EXCELLENT media JR. This thread has been much more peaceful than previous ones dick. I think we will have to agree to disagree about the effects of FIR and other ferroelectric and piezo electric effects taking or not taking place. I happen to know for fact something is taking place, but without the proper equipment and the list I asked you for, it is hard to write out here exactly what. I need more data. Rabbit trails and barking up the wrong tree are not hounds getting close. Did you know tigers and bobcats confuse hounds with multiple false trails so they can confuse, trap, and eat them? Had to poke at ya. We should get together in a lab, you with the goal to prove it wrong, me with the goal to prove it right, we will probably come up a filter media that blows the doors off of everything else.As for the ethics concern, it is only unethical if you believe your narrow scientific approach--just kidding!!! I also think Momotaro has demonstrated amazingly honest ethics in other areas, and folks do not normally ethically degenerate over one issue like that. I think there are other manufacturers with much more graphic and deceptive ethics and marketing/politicing issues. The one thing you might want to do before drawing your conclusions butterfly, is actually set up and listen to a bakki. The noise is like rain in the rainforest. Very natural and soothingly beautiful. My wife loves the noise. I hid my shower behind some rocks and a large plant with very large and beautiful wine colored flowers. I am blessed to live where the flowers grow and bloom year round, are huge, and many sweet smelling jasmine varieties as well. In one year I grew a fenced wall of canarios from 1ft tall to a overflowing a six foot fence height. It has hundreds of flowers on it now.

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Well George (or Jungle george) Sorry for being so late in responding. Had too many things to finish. If you and your wife like the stainless monstrocity hanging over your koi pond, drizzling trickles of water, amazing your neighbors (about your mental health etc.), emitting infrared and far infrared warning our neighbors in the next galaxy, at the same time making Momotaro rich and richer, I am happy for you and your wife. BTW, do you get anytime to look at your koi? Never mind, I am happy for both of you anyway.

[Maurice]

Quote: Originally Posted by butterfly \ Well George (or Jungle george) Sorry for being so late in responding. Had too many things to finish. If you and your wife like the stainless monstrocity hanging over your koi pond, drizzling trickles of water, amazing your neighbors (about your mental health etc.), emitting infrared and far infrared warning our neighbors in the next galaxy, at the same time making Momotaro rich and richer, I am happy for you and your wife. BTW, do you get anytime to look at your koi? Never mind, I am happy for both of you anyway.

Butterfly, there comes a time when 'water gardening' turns into 'koi keeping', for some aesthetics become less improtant than the well being of the koi.

And there are many ways to hide a bakki shower, just use some imagination if you want to stick to the water gardening side of things.

Maurice.

[junglegeorge12]

"If you and your wife like the stainless monstrocity hanging over your koi pond, drizzling trickles of water, amazing your neighbors (about your mental health etc.), emitting infrared and far infrared warning our neighbors in the next galaxy, at the same time making Momotaro rich and richer"- butterfly

I actually like your observations about nature because I love nature too. Our shower doesn't hang over our pond, it acually hides back from the pond behind a large beautiful flower bush, and drips into something you should love, a handmade stone creek that ends in a waterfall. My neighbors cannot even see the pond, and noone can see the shower except from sattelite. I like privacy. So we are not sending transmissions to far away galaxies this year. Maybe we will start that next year. It is a good idea, someone needs to warn them.

I can see my koi from my front veranda where much of our time is spent, and from my family room and dining room, and I watch them for a large amount of time daily. I built it so our entire family area is in view of the pond and the noise of the water can be heard throughout the house. I brought the natural elements into the family's daily living environment. My 4 yr old feeds koi and plays around with them daily. Our first morning time together is we go out and feed the koi together and watch the koi for a while. They are almost to the point of eating out of his hand. So yes, we have planty of time to actually enjoy the koi, and with clean water from our bakki, it is all that much more enjoyable. I also spend many hours weekly gardening, I used to work in a nursery when in school. I love it. If I have to work or apply technology, I prefer to do it to something as beautiful as koi and gardening than to an industrial plant, military facility, or factory that has 300 200 ton chillers. So I truly understand your sentiment. I have spent my life trying to get away from machines and things. For me, applying what I know to koi may be my only way to be able to spend all my time with the things I truly enjoy.


As for Momotaro's financial situation, I never really thought about it or let it influence my heart and mind. Does it upset some if they prosper? Don't let the little green guy spoil your coffee time. The grass on the other side of the fence is never as green once you get there.

[Valarc]

I agree with maurice and (gasp) george here - it's not like bakki showers have a monopoly on being ugly. I have yet to see a filter that isn't ugly - you just hide them all different ways. Shove the bakki shower in a filter house or behind a fence, stick your nexus under a deck, it's still an ugly filter being disguised somewhere. Some of the members who post on here from the UK have done downright gorgeous things to hide their showers. And it's not a bakki shower, but look at Carl's massive trickle tower/weeping wall - you can't get much prettier than that.

[junglegeorge12]

here is an excerpt from this link, http://www.ebmonline.org/cgi/content/full/228/6/724

It proves irrefutably that val's cockamamie ideas about FIR and biology being seperate fields is truly bad science. No real scientist would even make that suggestion, as they all know it is bunk. FIR has ALWAYS had biological and chemical effects on multitudes of things, as every real scientist knows.

Here is the excerpt.

"The biological effects of far-infrared ray (FIR) on whole organisms remain poorly understood. The aim of our study was to investigate not only the hyperthermic effect of the FIR irradiation, but also the biological effects of FIR on wound healing. To evaluate the effect of FIR on a skin wound site, the speed of full-thickness skin wound healing was compared among groups with and without FIR using a rat model. We measured the skin wound area, skin blood flow, and skin temperature before and during FIR irradiation, and we performed histological inspection. Wound healing was significantly more rapid with than without FIR. Skin blood flow and skin temperature did not change significantly before or during FIR irradiation. Histological findings revealed greater collagen regeneration and infiltration of fibroblasts that expressed transforming growth factor-ß1 (TGF-ß1) in wounds in the FIR group than in the group without FIR. Stimulation of the secretion of TGF-ß1 or the activation of fibroblasts may be considered as a possible mechanisms for the promotive effect of FIR on wound healing independent of skin blood flow and skin temperature.


Key Words: wound healing • far-infrared ray • transforming growth factor-ß1 • fibroblast • collagen



Introduction
Top
Abstract
Introduction
Materials and Methods
Results
Discussion
References




"Far-infrared ray (FIR) is an electromagnetic wave from the sun, with wavelengths ranging from 5.6 to 25.0 µm. Infrared radiation is arbitrarily subdivided into three categories: near-infrared (0.8–1.5 µm), middle-infrared (1.5–5.6 µm), and FIR radiation (5.6–1000 µm). Infrared radiation is that invisible portion of the electromagnetic spectrum adjacent to the long wavelengths, or red end, of the visible light range that extend up to the microwave range. However, they can be perceived as heat by specialized nerve endings known as thermoreceptors in the skin (1, 2).


The skin functions primarily as a protective barrier against the environment. Injury, illness, or surgery results in the loss of integrity of large portions of the skin and leads to major disturbances of this barrier function. Delayed wound healing and dehiscence of operative wounds are significant clinical problems, and wound care is an important factor in clinical situations. Low-energy lasers, such as helium-neon and argon laser, have been used to treat wounds in several animal models (3–6).

Recently, much attention has been paid to its activities with regard to health and food preservation. Accumulated evidence indicates that FIR is biologically active (7–9). FIR has been reported to inhibit tumor growth in mice and is used for treatment of bedsores in clinical situations (10, 11). However, there are few reports of the scientific analysis of the biological activities of FIR irradiation, with most of these being concerned with the hyperthermic effect of FIR. The biological effects of FIR on whole organisms remain poorly understood.

In this study, our aim was to investigate not only the hyperthermic effect of FIR irradiation, but also the biological effect of FIR on healing of full-thickness skin wounds using an animal model."
If you check the link
http://www.ebmonline.org/cgi/content/full/228/6/724

it even tells you what levels of radiation were needed to have such an effect. Very low, the same levels listed on FIR ceramics materials patents. In fact this experiment stresses that it was 'LOW', yet val constantly stresses it takes 'huge amounts'. Again revealing his extremely poor scientific understanding of the entire field. As well, he constantly talks about bonding and photons as things he understands, when he clearly does not. The bonding energy holding water molecules together in groups is nowhere near the force involved with holding the molecules themselves together. Stanford's latest research shows the energy level needed to seperate them and affect chemical and biological processes to be very low, as this experiment shows. In other words the clueless one, is val. I wish you would stop posting your lame hate-filled junk as 'good science', because it isn't. Learn about the field before commenting on it. I did.

In fact I worked with just those types of ceramics for sensors and capacitors for years, to overcome the issues steve brought up on another thread about probe and sensor fouling, and many many more issues. Such as Navy ship hull deposit accumulations and security applications like the ones you think do not exist. For a sensor not to foul it has to afffect chemical and biological processes around it, it does so via FIR or IR ceramics. The ray gun mentioned earlier is a submilimeter version of the same thing. Same idea just amped up quite a bit to make your skin crawl. Sensors also need to be able to transmit varying electrical signals, often self generated (piezo and ferroelectric), which affects heat and energy and magnetic fields at very low levels (all that is needed), which can be fine tuned to enhance FIR activity. As Einstein taught us, it is a wave, or frequency that has the effect, not extremely high energy. Just like sounds have frequencies, vibrations, and a wave.

Tourmaline is actually one of the most commonly used materials for those applications. The 'quacks' just took those ideas and went a slight bit over the edge with them to make some money. And some of them actually do work. That is why they can get patents. Interesting Einsteins first jon was in a patent office, yet val despises patent office science. Interesting. Guess you won't be the next Einstein. You prefer bowing to weak thought to maintain a university job, like Einstein's counterparts. Like I said, a puppet and a linear thinker. Parrots are not research scientists.

You do not know the field val. So drop it until you do. I have worked in it for over 20 years. And you, are clueless.

[PapaBear]

This whole thread has been hijacked by a giant "drop trou, look, mines bigger than yours" contest. Since the science on this whole thing is largely speculative and at best in its infancy there will not be a clear winner in this argument today or tomorrow so if you really want to continue with it start a new thread titled "BS/BH or just B.S. Pissing Contest Freeforall". That way you can rip on each other to your hearts content without disrupting another mans work.

Let this experiment, which makes no claims on either side of the argument from the outset, continue without the sideshow. DTBH has set out to see how well it works in his pond, without regard to any of the other arguments being bandyed about here.

[KoiCop]

Re: your post #28 (this thread):

Quote: Originally Posted by PapaBear Valarc I haven't noticed any BS/BH fanatics following this thread.

( pssst: They-uh he-yuh! Don)

[Steve Nguyen]

Hello:

I spent last night read up on Bakki Shower Filter Systems. my impression is that this is a must for the future of koi pond building. no more speeding big bucks for other expensive filters systems. no more complex pipes setup and still have dead water. Bakki Shower is a proven eco friendly filter systems that will save space and keep pond water at optimal conditions. fish grows to jumbo sizes and doesn't cost much to setup the Bakki Showers. everything I read about Bakki Showers filter was excellent. only trouble I have with the Bakki Showers is that it would be hard to integrate this type of filter into backyard ponds and still retain the nice looking landscape. for koi farms, this would work out well because cosmetic is not an issue. for back yard ponds? any idea what it would look like? any backyard pond pictures with Bakki Showers? just want to see how it would look like before I seriously consider this method.

Steve

[junglegeorge12]

Mike at www.yumekoi.com probably has the most pics of Bakki showered ponds around. He is pretty friendly, if you email him you will probably get a response. Also alot of the UK chats have member's pond pics that have them with many different ways to beautify the landscape aspects. www.koichat.com has lots of folks there with showers for some time. Good place to get some ideas and feedback as well.

[luke frisbee]

just so the beginning hobbyist doesn't think that what is being discussed about Bakki media is what the mainstream hobbyists believe...
THE VAST MAJORITY OF HOBBYISTS FEEL THAT THE FIR ASPECT OF BAKKI MEDIA WAS GENERATED SO THAT BAKKI MEDIA WOULD APPEAR TO BE BETTER THAN LAVA ROCK. IT ISN'T. IF YOU HAVE THE SAME FLOW RATES AND WATER CHANGES LAVA ROCK WORKS AS WELL AS BAKKI MEDIA, that is why I am trying to convince the Hobby to refer to this method of "Water Treatment" to refer to these shower systems as Porous Media Showers...
Now I will step aside...