In Search of Utopia

[PapaBear]

I appreciate and echo your comments . I have planted one Japanese Maple (good call) and am getting ready to add a willow. Along the stream bed there are small "pocket gardens" incorporated into the rockwork filled with strawberries and flowers to add color and texture. Additional pocket plantings have been added around the main pond and there are 2 Japanese plums, elephant ears, 2 bonzai type plantings, and 3 Bannana trees in a semi-circular border garden offsetting the pond. Some inspiration came from a Bhuddist temple near my birthplace in Ca. and the rest is just part of life.

Quote: Originally Posted by Mike T Papa Bear and Regenmeneer: Very nice ponds, what a great start... In the 40+ years that I've been tending to our Japanese Gardens, which encompass our entire lot, I've found that you have to fine tune the garden until you get it right. Maybe add some trees and shrubs while removing others...You have to remember that the gardens of Japan are hundreds of years old... After all these years, I still find that I tweak the gardens as my taste changes and new plant materials become available... As your gardens mature, natural plants will fill the gaps between the stone work making it more natural as the years pass... Depending on the weather and environment in your areas, hopefully lichen and mosses will start growing on and between the rockwork and temper the "new" look... Papa Bear: If Japanese Maples will grow in your area, a red one would really make your pond "Pop" and break the flatness around it, IMHO a great combination would be a red maple set off by 3 dog woods... Maybe a few mounds beneath them. Rengenmeneer: as to the Toros (lanterns) and pagoda, they look very natural to me because they are part and parcel of a Japanese Garden... I've been a student of Japanese Gardens for 40+ years, traveled to Japan for 8 and lived there for two... Except for the newness of the garden, yours is like many of the gardens I visited during my stays in Japan. While most of the gardens look similar, if you study them closely you'll see that many of them have their own personality which was passed down by the gardener who created them... In your case you like color, in mine I try to stay with basic greens framing the koi which add the "color"... There is nothing wrong with either of our designs, it's just a personal preference... As your gardens "Age" they will bring you years of enjoyment and pleasure... Aloha! Mike

[koiczar]

Mike T

I couldn't agree more with your assessment of what an attempt at a "natural" garden looks like. In Japan they try to mimic a scene in nature only in scale to fit the area being landscaped. I too have been a student of Japanese landscape and bonsai for about 40 years. You are absolutely correct in your statements about having to tinker with your landscape. as things mature, your original vision of what you tried to achieve either becomes overgrown or too sparse and needs a facelift. I have lived in my current home here in California for nearly 29 years. I have re-done the front gardens more times than I care to remember (at least 6) and I still don't have the total look I'm after, but I am gaining on it. One of our koi shops here in the bay area just started importing bamboo products such as gates, fence sections, gazebos, bridges (12-16 ft long). I immediately purchased one of the gates as it reminded me immediately of ones I have seen in Japan leading to Buddhist temples and beautiful gardens. Having just returned from Japan a few days prior, the memories and mental pictures where still very fresh in my mind. I will add several fence sections along the sidewalk and driveway to visually enclose the garden and make it feel more private. This should enhance my vision to the next level. I'm sure I will keep tinkering with both front and back gardens as that's part of the fun of gardening.
Reggenmeneer, your garden is maturing beautifully. It has a very calming natural look that will only get better with time. Keep at it and your level of enjoyment will increase with time

Regards

Mike

[Mike T]

Papa Bear:

A willow was another choice I had in mind as an option... Sound like you're well on you way to creating a mature garden...

Koiczar: You and I seem to be reading from the same sheet of music...
Aloha! Mike

[koiczar]

Mike T

The sound of water in a tranquil garden setting makes for a beautiful symphony!

[Dwight]

Did I miss something or did we loose the issue here. As I understand it we were trying to mix water gardening with koi keeping. From personal experience it's almost impossible. What I've finally decided to do is build a " stream " that appears to come from my koi pond. It will go through three wiers that are set up to imulate ( not actually BE ) a rapids and then flow into a slower moving wider and deeper area for water plants. After this it will go over a spillway into a long narrow koi pond. The edge treatment and landscaping will hopefully tie the whole thing together. Filtration will be typical koi pond but the water garden area will act as a bog or veggie filter. No I won't try to mix koi and lillies but they will be in the same stream , just not together.

I was raised on a ranch and we had a few natural streams and ponds. The ponds never had very many lillies or plants other than marginals and the whole effect was rather messy but beautifull. I want to keep the beauty but eliminate the mess. As I understand Japanese style gardening that is the whole idea , to emulate ( sp ? ) nature , not copy it.

By the way the pond I remember the best had straight sides except where the cattails grew and no rocks on the bottom. The streams had rocks but no plants. Kinda makes you think what natural really means.

Dwight

[PapaBear]

I think your idea is right along the lines of what we've been discussing. We're all just employing different variations on the same basic theme. The mixture of form and function in the best possible way.
Your idea sounds very much like what ours has been morphing into. We had a stream from the start, but are planning to add a veggie filter pool and a hatchery to the head of the stream this winter. I must admit to having several lillis in our main pond with the koi, but they don't really mess with them much as there are other plants we use as a diversionary tactic .

[Werner]

Great posts everyone. Everyone's input is really appreciated.

I dislike restrictive labeling. That's one of the reasons I started this thread on Koi-Bito (a Koi Board). Perhaps we should coin a new phrase for combined Water Garden and Koi Ponds "Koi Gardens" comes to mind.

I'm encouraged that a mixture of the two disciplines is being tried by others with
the third, Japanese Gardens, also being incorporated and even a fourth Bonsai, being talked about. Awsome possibilities.

[Mike T]

Werner and Guys:

Talk about tunnel vision... My problem is that when I hear the words "koi and gardens", I automatically focus on Japanese Gardens and Koi and completely forget about other garden designs...

Here's one of the most beautiful gardens I've seen, a combination of formal and natural, and not necessarily Japanese... a Ying and Yang of gardening if you will...

The garden is owned by Chris Neaves of South Africa who built it a few years ago...Quite a gentleman with a vast background in koi husbandry...

Aloha! Mike

[Werner]

Chris is certainly one of the Luminaries of this hobby. I had seen the picture before and was duly impressed with the transition from woodlands to Garden pond to formal pond to Canine Overlook

Thanks for searching it out!

[Dwight]

Some folks have green arms !!! Thats a beautiful garden. What I'm trying to do is a japanese " style " garden but using elements that give me pleasure and work in my climate and soil zone. i.e a Japanese maple has little chance of surviving here ( too hot ) but a crab apple or purple leaf plum is a good substitute. My pond and stream are less than natural due to care considerations but I have used as many natural elements as possible , large bolders , small bolders , river rock and flagstone for edging. It looks great to me and my wife and the fish are healthy so I'm happy. I subscribe to JOJG and they keep reminding me there is no such thing as a correct way to build a gardeen just as there is no correct way to build a koi pond , just many , many wrong ways.

Dwight

As you can see , very little landscaping has been done. These were taken late last summer just months after the pond was finished. Of interest is the waterfall which is 20 yrs old and was built by a landscaper who new nothing about ponds but did know concrete. The window visable to the left in the first picture is one of the windows in our breakfast nook and is definately not of japanese design.