In Search of Utopia

[Werner]

There's got to be a happy medium somewhere between the "Ultimate Koi Pond" and the "Natural Water Garden".

Unfortunately, discussions of the two disciplines eventually lead to extreme views on both sides and instead of bringing better understanding between opposites, deteriorate into name calling, personal attacks and p**** contests.

Experts
I believe a lot has to do with half truths being foisted on the unsuspecting pond owners by so called "Experts" who never admit to mistakes. They try to hide their limited knowledge, by ridiculing the opposing view, or using their reputation and their entourages ( followers, cliques, clans) to silence their opposition.

Manufacturers
The Manufacturers are of no help either, fully 65% of the Pond Items being marketed are Underdesigned, Overpriced, have few if any installation instructions or troubleshooting guides. Many are actually detrimental to the pond ecosystem and inhabitants.

Books
Books are very limited , since they only describe a few ideas, are usually written for temperate climates only and have just one or at most a a limted amount of different disciplines included.

Experience
I firmly believe that there is absolutely no better teacher than experience. We all know that, like fingerprints, every pond is different no matter if equipment is exactly the same, nature plays a major role in our pondkeeping and every mothers soul has a different idea what their pond should be. Only experience can educate you to all the different nuances of pond and fishkeeping

The Real Experts
There are a few individuals out there that "Can keep a 24" Koi in a teacup"(It's only a metaphor), they are the ones that are constantly learning with an open mind. They are the ones that "do not need to blow out someone elses candle to make their own burn brighter" They are the ones that will advance this hobby. Seek them out and your learning curve will advance dramatically.

The Water Garden Koi Pond
Personally I love the look of a natural well waterscaped pond. I also think that Koi are truly " the swimming Jewels" and I have been working all my life with limited success, to have the two live in harmony. Some day, someone will perfect a Koi Water Garden system, in the meantime, let's learn from each other,respect each other and don't be afraid to question each other, because even the smallest pond, in the most remote corner, in the poorest country, could yield some groundbreaking information.

[MikeM]

Werner: Actually, the perfect combo pond does exist, but it is not very practical. It is the mud pond where cattails and other marginals grow thick on the edges. Problem is that it takes several thousand gallons per koi to maintain water quality, and even then the ponds have to be drained and rehabilitated regularly to get rid of the organic layer that builds on the bottom.

[PapaBear]

I've never understood the conflict myself . Naturalistic looking ponds can make wonderful homes for koi using the best of both worlds in a "compromise" environment. Last winter my wife and I built a pond for goldfish which wound up being filled with koi instead by a stroke of luck. (a friend had too many and I adopted some of his oversupply).
What we have wound up with is a naturalistic "work in progress" that incorporates a lot of landscaping, many water plants, a small waterfall, and a long stream. When we wound up with koi instead of low maintenence goldfish we began studying up crash course style and slowly incorporated mechanical filtration and biofilter improvements in the least noticeable ways possible and wound up with a good system that still looks and feels "natural".
The only way I can see going completely mechanical is if minimal space considerations simply demand it. But for those who need it to be that way, happy koi can live in concrete ponds too.
As to the mud pond with cattail marginals, a friend of mine has one (80'x120') that will be stocked from our next spawn , just for the fun of it .

[Werner]

Mike- as you say, a mud pond with a perimeter of bog plants is not very practical for most of us. I'm looking more at the man made, to quote Papa Bear "Naturalistic Looking" pond that can serve the Koi as well as our senses without having to get a second mortgage.

Papa Bear--I applaud your past and continuing efforts to "naturalize" your pond and hope you keep having an open mind to all the different ways to achieve your Utopia. If you can, a picture or two would be nice.

I would love to see some of the thousands of hobbyist lurkers intimidated by flame wars, political infighting and general trash talking, post here and on some of the newer, kinder and gentler boards. Perhaps then, the 500lb Gorillas will realize they're beating their chests, but no one is there to listen.

[Brutuscz]

I think when many of us started..we intended a natural looking pond with some koi...but then..IT HAPPENED!!! The gradual slope of the natural pond edge became a wonderful place for the heron to feed. So..it became a straight edge to the bottom out of protective necessity. Then those wonderful, natural looking, rocks and stones on the bottom became a beautiful place to grow pathogenic bacteria...so, they had to go immediately!! Then you got sick of waiting for the algae bloom to end..so the UV was added. Then the koi that survived all this...grew and grew...and suddenly your little tetra filter wasn't doing the job..the ammonia spiked..nitrites..nitrates..hair algae..oh my!!! So...you added a ton of filtration. Somewhere along the way...the pond grew as well!!! so, what are we left with? The un-natural, heavy duty, koi pond that we all know and love!!! We all simply want too many koi per gallon to have it any other way. NOW...come to terms with it and STOP using the word "natural" (the most bastardized word in the english language) like natural=good, because it doesn't!! Unless you are going to keep 1 koi per 100,000 gallons..there is nothing natural about your pond.

[koiczar]

AMEN!! Thanks for setting the record straight BRUTUSCZ

Mike

[Mike T]

Werner:

Natural Setting, 17.5' l x 8'w x 30"d, sloping sides, 900 gallons, Six 24+" koi, , under US$4,000...

Aloha! Mike

[mitten]

Thank you Retired Guy.

Natural looking and the path from here to there crosses it. Daily contact with the water and fish is unnatural in my outside world of x-ways and job sites, and wondeful in my home space where I am Nature.

Mickey the windowman

[PapaBear]

Quote: Originally Posted by Werner Mike- as you say, a mud pond with a perimeter of bog plants is not very practical for most of us. I'm looking more at the man made, to quote Papa Bear "Naturalistic Looking" pond that can serve the Koi as well as our senses without having to get a second mortgage. Papa Bear--I applaud your past and continuing efforts to "naturalize" your pond and hope you keep having an open mind to all the different ways to achieve your Utopia. If you can, a picture or two would be nice...

A few pictures of my less than perfect pond (never posted pix on this forum so be patient if I scew it up)

[Regenmeneer]

Would you consider this a natural looking pond?

Regenmeneer