legalities of pond construction

[woodyaht]

The best situation to have: live next to the head county building inspector Lucky me

[Ryan S.]

Quote: Originally Posted by kingkong In Dade County, Miami, Florida, any body of water exceeding an arbitrary depth of 18 to 24 inches is considered a swimming pool whether it is for human use or fish to swim in. There are minimum set backs, perimeter fence requirements, electrical and plumbing requirements as well as depth, volume and water surface area considerations. It may be smart to request a variance from local building and zoneing. What I have found is the powers to be need to be made aware that the koi get very large and require special needs such as pond depth and adequate water volume for their rather large oxygen usage. This will hopefully manage a few extra feet here or there. If permitting process is ignored, the local gov. can impose their dirty deeds at the time of sale if you wish to sell your la casa.

Kingkong,

Can you post where the actual code that says that. Or is that just what the building inspector told you. The point of my first post is information from building inspector on ponds rarely reflects the actual code that can be legally inforced. So are all ditches and mud ponds in Dade County pools? Why when you go do the actual FL Building Code site (which is what Dade County uses) why does it make no reference to this and actually states: "used for bathing or swimming by humans". How can 18-24" be considered a pool when pools can not be constructed according the code at depths under 36"? Point is folks, check the codes themselves, they are available online for most areas.

[Bob Winkler]

In Colorado Springs, you get a different answer every time you call the city to ask if apermit is needed. The short story is that a permit is not needed for a pond, but is for a pool. Any water holding structure of greater than 100 square feet surface area, or goes above ground 3', needs a permit though. So no wonder they do not answer the question the same way twice.

[schildkoi]

You can meet every regulatory requirement you want, but I'd also check with your homeowners insurance carrier as well.

Steve

[Steve E]

Some additional thoughts that have come to mind regarding building permits. If one elects to build a pond without a permit, they should build it in compliance with the building code that is adopted in your area. For California that is the "California Edition of the Uniform Building Code" with any modifications the local agency having jurisdiction may have adopted. Your local agency will have a copy available for you to read.

Place the pond in an area that complies with all of the setback distances from property lines, distance and depth from buildings, etc. For instance, in CA there is an imaginary triangle that has the following points: 5'-90deg out from the footing, straight down 5', and then back up to the foundation for the hypotenuse. Your pond can not intersect the hypotenuse of this triangle at any point. For the typical pond of 4'-6' in depth this means that you should not come closer than 5' to any building without some type of engineered support wall for the building foundation.

Build it structurally following the swimming pool construction codes, especially if you elect to build with concrete or block. Take lots and lots of pictures. Distance shots, mid-range distances, and close-ups. Use a tape or yard stick to show things like center line of re-bar placement, size of re-bar, thickness of concrete floor, walls, coverage beneath and over re-bar. If you are going to use DWV-PVC couplings for the larger radius I would first take a picture of pressure rated Schedule 40/80 couplings first and then change them out to the DWV-PVC.

If you have documentation of the construction method and you get caught building without a permit it will be easier to get the permit after the fact. If you do not document the construction very well (or have a "bad attitude" with the building inspector) be advised that the building department can require one to prove that code requirements were followed. That can involve tearing apart various areas of the pond shell to prove that the code was followed.

The best way to get answer from the building department about the requirement for a permit is to take them a set of plans including plot plan and ask the question. Verbal information is subject to too many variables and misunderstanding. With a set of plans you should be able to get a more definitive answer.

The requirement for a permit for a body of water with a depth of 18" or greater is usually preceded or followed by words something to the effect of "used for swimming, wading, etc by humans". I am paraphrasing here and the actual words may not say that exactly but the intent is for a pool used by humans. In California the latest code has added words to include ponds used as landscape features. So that is how a pond in California falls under the permits requirements.

Now some areas, in particular rural counties, choose not to enforce the building code requirements if one is talking about a koi pond. They will however enforce the electrical code requirements for the electrical service for that pond. Also be aware that code requirements can be applied after the fact of construction.

A real fly in the ointment can be a home owner's association. The boards for these are usually comprised of too many little facists who love the power they have. So you should also check the HOA's requirements for a swimming pool or landscape features.

As has been stated elsewhere, Read the code. Take it one line at a time. If you have questions ask someone at the counter, get their name and position, and take copious notes. If you get different answers from different people ask for a supervisor to settle the differences. ABOVE ALL do NOT get angry and tell them off. This bad karma will come back to haunt you!

Steve

[kingkong]

All I can say is, should everyone that wanted a swimming pool have to go through the koi pond variance process, there would be a lot less 'Marco Polo' played on the weekends. Here is a couple of teasers for the coaxing variance people . The Koi in the pond will consume all the mosquito larvae thereby naturally reducing the mosquito population. The Koi pond is a natural catch basin reducing water run-off from your property. That is a stretch but water run-off is a hot topic these days. Let them figure out where the captured water goes. You can always tell the code people you are building a regular, normal swimming pool but there are safety requirements for s pools that will not be necessary for a koi pond like tiled skim line or non-skid patio decking and on and on. My last experience was a scratch built fancy home with an entrance walk-way over a Koi pond. For the plan to pass b&z, I had to show the depth, at the deep end of this water feature at 18 inches below water surface. It would have been hard to sell the fact this was to be a swimming pool unless I could demonstrate the homeowner has a thing for swimming laps under the walkway of his or hers guests arriving.

[saratogatan]

installing a pond without a permit is not always a good idea. You will not know the impact until you sell your house. Most towns do not take 'permit after the fact'. Besides. if you are hiring someone to shoot gunite, they will definately ask for a permit.

My town requires permit for all work totalling $500 or more. I pulled 3 permits just for building my pond.

stan

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by saratogatan installing a pond without a permit is not always a good idea. You will not know the impact until you sell your house. Most towns do not take 'permit after the fact'. Besides. if you are hiring someone to shoot gunite, they will definately ask for a permit. My town requires permit for all work totalling $500 or more. I pulled 3 permits just for building my pond. stan

Then again, if I were living in a town like yours were 80% of the homes are in the millions, then $500 should be no problem...

[saratogatan]

no, my permit totalled few times of $500, it is more than what I paid for my maruyama. BTW, I have the cheapest house in my neighbourhood.

stan