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Old 11-13-2005   #11 (permalink)
Oyagoi
 
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Got to agree with Dick on the R.O. expense and waste factor. Not only is it cost prohibitive, pure R.O. water is literally "dead" and has to be blended back with some of the backwash just to make it good for much outside of a laboratory setting. It would be helpful to know your raw feed water parameters and any other variables about your ponds ie concrete or lined?, rocks in the pond or none? If there is a particular source of ph elevation in the one running at 9.0 there may be a simple way to deal with it.
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Old 11-13-2005   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorth
One pond is stable at 8.5 and the other is stable at 9. I'd like to get both of them to at least 8. Believe me I'm not looking for a short term solution but something more long term. Maybe an RO unit is the way to go. How do you make sure the gh and kh stay up with an RO unit in place? Thanks and keep the comments coming.
RO is a good way to go. You keep the kh and gh up by mixing tap water with RO, not just running straight RO.

RO cartidges are expensive tho. A cheaper route is to use a series of inexpensive cartidges filters with incrementally smaller micron ratings. The replacements for those are cheap and not as often as RO due to being an incremental step down process. 6.8-7.2 is what japanese breeders aim for.
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Old 11-13-2005   #13 (permalink)
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There zero water waste RO system available on market. it cost twice the amount of regular RO setup though.

Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by dick benbow
Reverse Osmosis water is a very expensive way to correctly bring down PH. With high replacement rates of water, the pond does not have time to work very long on the limited buffer available.

I suggest you read Mike Snaden's info on reverse for understanding. On the world wide web it's Yume koi.

The procedure is learning to mix RO water with regular water in a % so that you have some GH and KH. Understocking with this system is not a bad thing...The amount of wasted water is not to my liking and the replacement cartridges are not cheap.

Baking soda should only be used in emergency situations as the Buffer is too quickly used up making the ph rise and fall adversely affecting your koi's health.

A PH of 8 and 9 will adversely affect your reds.

I suggest you look at your source water PH and if not running a 10% replacement trickle start one immediately to help bring the PH down closer to source water.
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Old 11-14-2005   #14 (permalink)
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There is another alternative!

Bacta Pur makes a product called Lithaqua. It is a form of calcium carbonate. I use it and have great success in lowering my pH. My tap water is 8.5 and my pond water is 7.5
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Old 11-14-2005   #15 (permalink)
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Looks like it might be crushed coral? Anyone know fer shure? Don


Bacta-PurŪ LITHAQUA

Bacta-PurŪ LITHAQUA is a marine mineral with a high content of minerals trace elements and carbonates. It brings them into your pond and thereby adjusts the mineral balance and improves the water quality. Use it as pond substrate for bacteria to grow on and for fish to play in or use it as a filter medium. Modern multi-chamber filters, contain mainly plastic media. Those are excellent supports for bacteria but, they do not add anything to water quality. It is important to fill at least one filter chamber (preferably the last chamber) with Bacta-PurŪ LITHAQUA. It provides an enormous surface area for bacteria (10 to 20 times more than most plastic filter media) and provides the bacteria with essential nutrients. Bacta-PurŪ LITHAQUA neutralises acid pH and helps to restore carbonate alkalinity. It provides a natural environment, on which bacteria in Bacta-PurŪ KLEAR and Bacta-PurŪ Sludgebusters can grow. It is an essential aid to achieve a clear and healthy pond.

Bacta-PurŪ Lithaqua (10 kg)Ģ16.60 + Vat

Source: http://www.koicarp.net/water_treatment/bacta_pur.html

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Old 11-14-2005   #16 (permalink)
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Nishi8,

this is great info. thanks for sharing. 7.5 is darn good.

how often do you need to replace Lithaqua? can you provide a description of your application? tia!

Steve


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nishi8
Bacta Pur makes a product called Lithaqua. It is a form of calcium carbonate. I use it and have great success in lowering my pH. My tap water is 8.5 and my pond water is 7.5
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Old 11-14-2005   #17 (permalink)
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Lithaqua

Halimeda is a well-known tropical benthic genus of green algae. Fairley large, of centimeter to decimeter dimensions, species of this genus consist of strings of flattened or sometimes crinkled, calcified discs connected by flexible joints. They are abundant in shallow seas around the tropics especially on "coral"reefs and in their lagoons, although some species range down reef drop-offs to great depths. During the 1950's when large numbers of deep bore holes were drilled into Pacific atolls, geologists found that the dominant element of the carbonate structure of these atolls was not stoney coral but rather a lithified sand made up of the lobes of Halimeda. The members of this genus rank as one of the most important calcifiers of the biosphere; it is likely that their CaCO3 production over all tropical seas is considerably greater than that of the stoney corals.
Halimeda is a member of the green algal order of Siphonales. In breif, anatomically, members of this genus are constructed of tubules, with very few cross walls. Thus, individual cells are extremely long and narrow. At the surface of the discs or lobes, the "bat like"surface expression of these tubules (called utricles) is slightly swollen to form a continuous surface as a kind of cellular pavement. Just below the surface of the lobe, there are considerable spaces between the utricles. The calcification occurs almost entirely in these interutricular spaces. Thus, through the anatomy of their utricles, these algae provide one of the basic requirements for biomineralization, confined spaces in which critical supersaturation can occur.
When photosynthesis occurs rapidly, CO2 diffuses from the water immediately exterior to the plant and, particularly because this is the largest surface of each utricle, from the interutricular spaces. This strongly raises the pH and the concentration of carbonate ion in the interutricular spaces. As long as calcium is available to diffuse through the porous cell wall from the exterior, calcium carbonate becomes highly supersaturated in these largely enclosed spaces.

This information comes from a book called Dynamic Aquaria by Walter H. Adey from Marine systems laboratory National Museum of natural History and Karen Loveland, Smithsonian Institution.
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Old 11-14-2005   #18 (permalink)
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EA was going to release a pass through filter attachment that monotored and adjusted pH. I have no idea how it was supposed to work , maybe by dosing with CaCO3 or Na ClO4 in incraments. Have no idea what happened but it must not have worked. There was an add in Koi USA a couple of years ago for a similar product made here but I never heard anything else about it also. If one of these things work it would be great and even if expensive would be cheaper than RO in the long run. Maybe someone in commercial aquaculture has something like this. It would be nice to see red instead of orange for a change.

Dwight
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Old 11-14-2005   #19 (permalink)
Tosai
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Nguyen
Nishi8,

this is great info. thanks for sharing. 7.5 is darn good.

how often do you need to replace Lithaqua? can you provide a description of your application? tia!

Steve
Steve,

The Lithaqua only needs to be replaced every three to five years. I have a gravity flow system and my water flows up through it in the final chamber.

Nishi8
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Old 11-14-2005   #20 (permalink)
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How can a calcium carbonate product lower pH? I think of these things as buffers which can dissolve and raise acidic water up to a neutral pH, but cannot imagine how they generate hydrogen ions to lower the pH.

Here is totally impractical way to lower pH...
Peat moss will soften your pond water by binding the calcium and magnesium ions while simultaneously releasing tannic acids into the water. These acids then attack the bicarbonates in the water, reducing the water's carbonate hardness and pH. To incorporate peat moss into your filtration system, use a media bag large enough to contain a large amount of peat moss and place the bag in a location where water flow is high (typically within your pond's skimmer or within your biological filtration). The tannin will give your pond water a yellow tint so you also need to install an activated carbon filter to remove the color.

Do a search in the archives. This topic has come up before, but I believe that incorporating an R.O. unit was to be the only practical solution suggested.

-steve hopk ins
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