Question on lowering PH

[Russell Peters]

Steve,
I really do not know enough about the chemistry involved to tell you how it works. I do know that part of the process that Bacta Pur uses to treat the Lithaqua is a baking process. They "cook" the Lithaqua to a tepurature of 900 Degrees F. I was told that this changes the ionic structure of the Lithified algae, thus allowing it to work even in water with a high pH. It really does work.
I have tried the peet moss without any success.

Russell Peters

[carolyn swanson]

I have been reading along with this, getting more alarmed at every post. Everyone's PH is in the 8 range, with recommendations that this is optimal. My PH is 6.8 to 7.0 and was getting worried that I would have to do something to raise it until it was mentioned that the Japanese breeders aim for the 6.8--7.2 range. I can breathe again. It may be conincidental, but I use Lithaqua. When I built my filter, I have a chamber dedicated to it. I had to have the filter built because none of the filters fashionable at the time could accomodate the Lithaqua or coral. Thanks to Sandy Sylvester of the Camellia Koi Club for providing the solution to my filter design problem.

(Russell, this one's for you)

[PapaBear]

Quote: Originally Posted by carolyn swanson I have been reading along with this, getting more alarmed at every post. Everyone's PH is in the 8 range, with recommendations that this is optimal. My PH is 6.8 to 7.0 and was getting worried that I would have to do something to raise it until it was mentioned that the Japanese breeders aim for the 6.8--7.2 range. I can breathe again. It may be conincidental, but I use Lithaqua. When I built my filter, I have a chamber dedicated to it. I had to have the filter built because none of the filters fashionable at the time could accomodate the Lithaqua or coral. Thanks to Sandy Sylvester of the Camellia Koi Club for providing the solution to my filter design problem. (Russell, this one's for you)

As has already been mentioned, different water conditions are preferred for different color types. The main reason most veterenarians recommend it to be a little higher is to guard small hobby koi ponds against vulnerability to ph crash which can spell quick death to an entire collection. Every pond is its own miniature ecosystem. It takes very little, even an ordinary thunderstorm, to throw a 2,000 gallon or smaller koi pond into a complete train wreck. Larger ponds are naturally less prone as their sheer volume acts as a buffer.
I don't know exactly what your situation is, but the mere fact that you have a good CaCO3 buffer in place protects you from wild swings. I think it is worth noting that the Lithaqua has not raised your ph through the roof. Slow release buffers do just that, "buffer". Quick release agents like Sodium Bicarb or Salt raise ph, but don't offer the protection against wild swings.

[Rich L]

In the past I've evaluated pH controllers and they were very reliable. In 18 years a failed once in a way that could have harmed koi. That could have been avoided if two controllers were used in series to control the acid.

pH sensors require biweekly maintenance that consists on wiping with a soft towel. The acid was pure sulfuric and the controller maintained a pH of 7.2 to 7.3. The incoming water was 8.3.

Calcium Carbonate will act as a buffer of about 7.5 from either direction as will any buffer but at it's own neutral point. Baking soda is 8.3 and will lower pH to that point if enough is added.

I could lower my pH from 8.2 if I wanted, but it wouldn't serve me. If you're raising kohakus, a lower pH is valuable, especially if they aren't high quality. Sanki's and I expect showas sumi will benefit from more alkaline water. Is that enough to you to mess with your pH?

Some folks do it successfully, but you better know what you're doing before you move in that direction.

[Carloskoi]

what is your KH level and Ph from the tap? as others asked is your pond liner or concrete?

how is that Goshiki you got last spring?

Carl

[jnorth]

Quote: Originally Posted by Carloskoi what is your KH level and Ph from the tap? as others asked is your pond liner or concrete? how is that Goshiki you got last spring? Carl

Sorry I'm just getting back to this. I have been away for a bit for a family emergency so I have not tested my tap waters kh and ph. Offhand I think the Ph was around 7.6-7.8 when I tested it over the summer but I will test it again soon. I need to get a new kh kit. Both ponds are liner ponds no concrete or rocks or plants anywhere. Here is a pic of the goshiki from last week.

[butterfly]

Quote: Originally Posted by jnorth It is said in many threads on this board and others that the optimal PH for koi is in the neighborhood of 7.3-7.8. What are some of the various methods being used to safely and effectively LOWER your PH to these levels? Thanks!

If the pH is between 6-8, do not fool with it. You may damage more by adding chemicals. Moreover, the pH meter should be a research grade instrument used in laboratories to get an accurate pH measurement. I would not trust a $100 pH meter or pH paper. You may contact your city water supply company and see what pH they get for your city water.

If your pond is a concrete pond, use a PVDM liner. That's my pond setup. If you must lower pH, I think the most gentle way would be to add a little dry ice (solid carbon dioxide) at a time. It will form a very weak carbonic acid and neutralize and lower pH. That is what happens in our blood. Needless to mention, it should be done very slowly.

[Carloskoi]

dry ice, i hope you were kidding.

this hobby is expensive enough without adding dryice to the bill.

measure your KH and then let's talk some more.

did you say you are going to the show at Eastern this weekend?

the Goshiki is looking fantastic.

[jnorth]

Quote: Originally Posted by Carloskoi did you say you are going to the show at Eastern this weekend? the Goshiki is looking fantastic.

Yes I will be there although my goshiki won't be . Thanks for the compliment on the goshiki it seems to be coming along nicely.

[junglegeorge12]

You can always just throw in a handful of hydrocholoric acid once a day. It is really good for yer skin. Just kidding. Koi like acid about as much as we do. Just watch them after adding some if you don't believe me.

Get an R/O or step down filter, get microns to around 50, filter and lower your kh and gh the way the breeders do it. As your kh and gh go down, your ph will go down also, so lower it slowly and check it regularly. Mix it the way Mike says on the yumekoi site. It will help the reds and beni alot. Nice red on your baby there, surprised it is so deep with such a high ph. Dropping it down should help even more. It will also help keep the black from taking over so easily. I want to see a pic after you do. For RED red, get it down to 6.8-7.0. If you drop your ph down to 6 all your fish will probably die. Anything over 7.4-7.6 black spreads like wildfire in. No lower than 6.6. I do not recommend using chemicals, one overdose due to changes in gh or kh using the same dose as yesterday and you will have a very tearful day. I got mine down from 8.4 to 7.2 just by lowering my tds, thanks to BH. Filter your incoming water. Keep your tds down, some breeders shoot for 70. Some hobbiests do too. 300 is too high. Ph does not like to stay down with alot of tds or kh or gh. You already know BH will help, so won't beat that drum again here. A good low micron filter or R/O system will also help get rid of other nasties and help protect your koi.