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Old 12-09-2005   #31 (permalink)
Oyagoi
 
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Noone should go tossing cobalt sulfate into their ponds until we find our more. Unless they already know more than I do.

I will have to dig aorund my docs for those articlezs, I have like 1000 documents, so it is not that quick. I will try ot do it this week. It explains (at least to a non expert in those areas) how the erythrin and cobalt suflate are related in plants and also animals. It has been over a year since I stumbled onto it, so I do not remember all the details, just my end conclusion.
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Old 12-09-2005   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junglegeorge12
<snip>There is even a site that tells you how much ppm of cobalt sulfate or carbonate needs to be in the soil for plants to draw enough of it up to synthesize it into red color pigment.

That is all aside from the fact it is a source of B-12.
junglegeorge, don't you mean the reverse? B-12 contains cobalt, but cobalt sulfate does not contain B-12.

Tom
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Old 12-09-2005   #33 (permalink)
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im not sure about that part of things tom, I never really looked at it for that reason (B 12 or energy etc). I was diggin up info on erythrin and it's roots and role in pigmentation of both animals and plants. The B 12 was a side bar note I saw on some of it, but I have not really looked too deeply into it. Is it in B 12 or B 12 in it? I dont know.

Also, honestly, when I do find it I think I will pm it to kong, tewa, monscine, and koinut. Check back wiht me this weekend, I might need the reminder...
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Old 12-09-2005   #34 (permalink)
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Here is a litte piece I ran into while looking for another doc right now. It does not delve deeply in to the science of how it can be used for pigmentation, but does list it's uses and some history info on it. The latter part of the document should explain why it may not be easily accessed or readily dissimenated information. The three companies I emailed have not repsonded. I will emailthem again and tryo calling. They might be leary, due to some uses of cobalt, to respond to emails from folks they do not know. That is probably about as in detail as I will get on this thread. When I get a response from a proper scientific authority I will let you know what they say. If this thread dies in that time I will start another. I just want to wait until I have something that is stated wisely and is not going to present any sort of problems or idea theft.



Notable characteristics

Cobalt is a hard ferromagnetic silver-white element. The Curie temperature is of 1388 K with 1.6~1.7 Bohr magnetons per atom. It is frequently associated with nickel, and both are characteristic ingredients of meteoric iron. Mammals require small amounts of cobalt salts. Cobalt-60, an artificially produced radioactive isotope of cobalt, is an important radioactive tracer and cancer-treatment agent. Cobalt has a relative permeability two thirds that of iron. Metallic cobalt commonly presents a mixture of two crystallographic structures hcp and fcc with a transition temperature hcp->fcc of 722 K.

Common oxidation states of cobalt include +2, and +3, though +1 is also seen.

Applications
Co-60 is useful as a gamma ray source partially because it can be produced - in known quantity, and very large amounts - by simply exposing natural cobalt to neutrons in a reactor for a given time.

Use in medicine

Cobalt-60 (Co-60 or 60Co) is a radioactive metal that is used in radiotherapy. It produces two gamma rays with energies of 1.17 MeV and 1.33 MeV. The 60Co source is about 2cm in diameter and as a result produces a geometric penumbra, making the edge of the radiation field fuzzy. The metal has the unfortunate habit of producing a fine dust, causing problems with radiation protection. The 60Co source is useful for about 5 years but even after this point is still very radioactive, and so cobalt machines have fallen from favor in the Western world where linacs are common. The first 60Co therapy machine (the "cobalt bomb") was built and first used in Canada. In fact the first machine is on display in the Saskatoon Cancer Centre – look up when entering the lobby. The second machine is out beside the walkway into the Centre.

History

Cobalt was known in ancient times through its compounds, which would color glass a rich blue.

George Brandt (1694-1768) is credited with the discovery of cobalt. The date of discovery varies depending on the source, but is between 1730 and 1737. He was able to show that cobalt was the source of the blue color in glasses, which previously had been attributed to the bismuth found with cobalt.

During the 19th century, cobalt blue was produced at the Norwegian Blaafarveværket (70-80 % of world production), led by the Prussian industrialist Benjamin Wegner.

In 1938, John Livingood and Glenn Seaborg discovered cobalt-60.

The word cobalt comes from the German kobalt or kobold, meaning evil spirit, the metal being so called by miners, because it was poisonous and troublesome (it polluted and degraded the other mined elements, like nickel).

Biological role

Cobalt in small amounts is essential to many living organisms, including humans. Having 0.13 to 0.30 parts per million of cobalt in soils markedly improves the health of grazing animals. Cobalt is a central component of the vitamin cobalamin, or vitamin B-12.

Occurrence

Missing image
Cobalt_OreUSGOV.jpg Cobalt ore


Cobalt is not found as a free metal and is generally found in the form of ores. Cobalt is usually not mined alone, and tends to be produced as a by-product of nickel and copper mining activities. The main ores of cobalt are cobaltite, erythrite, glaucodot, and skutterudite. The world's major producers of cobalt are DRC, mainland China, Zambia, Russia and Australia.

Compounds

Due to the various oxidation states, there is an abundant number of compounds. Oxides are antiferromagnetic at low temperature] CoO (Neel temperature: 291 K) and Co3O4 (Neel temperature: 40 K).

Isotopes

Naturally occurring cobalt is composed of 1 stable isotope, 59-Co (59Co). 22 radioisotopes have been characterized with the most stable being 60Co with a half-life of 5.2714 years, 57-Co (57Co) with a half-life of 271.79 days, and 56-Co (56Co) with a half-life of 77.27 days, and 58-Co (58Co) with a half life of 70.86 days. All of the remaining radioactive isotopes have half-lifes that are less than 18 hours and the majority of these have half lives that are less than 1 second. This element also has 4 meta states, all of which have half lives less than 15 minutes.

The isotopes of cobalt range in atomic weight from 50 amu (50Co) to 73 amu (73Co). The primary decay mode before the most abundant stable isotope, 59Co, is electron capture and the primary mode after is beta decay. The primary decay products before 59Co are element 26 (iron) isotopes and the primary products after are element 28 (nickel) isotopes.

Precautions

Powdered cobalt in metal form is a fire hazard. Cobalt compounds should be handled with care due to cobalt's slight toxicity.

Cobalt-60 is a powerful gamma ray emitter and exposure to 60Co is therefore a cancer risk. Ingestion of 60Co will lead to incorporation of some cobalt into tissues, which is released very slowly. Cobalt-60 is a risk factor in a nuclear confrontation because neutron emissions will convert iron into this isotope. Some nuclear weapon designs could intentionally increase the amount of Cobalt-60 dispersed as nuclear fallout – this is sometimes called a dirty bomb or cobalt bomb. The risk in the absence of a nuclear war comes from improper handling (or theft) of medical radiotherapeutic units.
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Old 12-09-2005   #35 (permalink)
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There's your answer junglegeorge, B12 contains cobalt. Cobalt is an element, it only contains atomic particles!

B12 is a complex molecule, here is some info from a vegan website:

Vitamin B12 is a member of the vitamin B complex. It contains cobalt, and so is also known as cobalamin. It is exclusively synthesised by bacteria and is found primarily in meat, eggs and dairy products. There has been considerable research into proposed plant sources of vitamin B12. Fermented soya products, seaweeds, and algae such as spirulina have all been suggested as containing significant B12. However, the present consensus is that any B12 present in plant foods is likely to be unavailable to humans and so these foods should not be relied upon as safe sources. Many vegan foods are supplemented with B12. Vitamin B12 is necessary for the synthesis of red blood cells, the maintenance of the nervous system, and growth and development in children. Deficiency can cause anaemia. Vitamin B12 neuropathy, involving the degeneration of nerve fibres and irreversible neurological damage, can also occur.

This refers to human physiology, though. I wonder if B12 from plant sources is available to koi? It's also interesting that it is synthesized by bacteria, that could be a method of cobalt uptake in fish. They have red blood cells too. And most prepared koi foods contain B12, which may provide all the cobalt that a fish needs.

My only "exposure" to cobalt (which, as your last post states, is not a good idea) has been through another hobby, where I've made a few knives from Stellite, which is 50% cobalt. Not good to breathe the dust...

Tom
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Old 12-09-2005   #36 (permalink)
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Interesting Tom. B12 vitamin is synthesized by microorganisms which contains the trace element cobalt. Cobalt is assimilated only in the form B12. Cobalt deficiency is most dramatic in grazing animals. They obtain B12 from gut bacteria only if provided cobalt salts. Sometimes they inject it. As long as gut bacteria have cobalt, they can produce B12. B12 helps maintain healthy nerve cells, red blood cells and helps make DNA. The only natural food sources of Vit. B12 that I can see are mollusks, grazing animals, chickens and fish so it must have to be synthesized in the gut first than processed into feed.
Gary
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Old 12-09-2005   #37 (permalink)
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"Vitamin B12 is a member of the vitamin B complex. It contains cobalt, and so is also known as cobalamin. It is exclusively synthesised by bacteria and is found primarily in meat, eggs and dairy products."--tom&zuma

kong, this says B-12 is only synthesized by bacteria, or cobalmin, does not say anything at all about the MANY other forms of cobalt or cobalt derivatives. Nothing I have sdeen indicates it is only assimilated in B12 form, in fact the stuff I have read says very differently. for instance, erythrite, a pink or purple crystal, is from cobalt. What I found interesting in what I read was that it originally was thought it could only be used as a blue pigment, but later it was discover that in certains forms it could be used as red pigment.

It also went into detail about how plants take it up and synthesize it into color, not from pure cobalt, but from a certain derivative which I do not recall the exact name of. It even went into detail about how ppm were needed in the soil to accomplish that. Then it went on to describe how animals then can ingest the pigment and assimilate it. Then it mentioned briefly about how that plants prepared the sunstance for that, but it certain forms the plants syhtesis was not needed for animal ingestion and assimilation. It did not mention what kind of animals to my recollection. I have not been able to find that exact article again. I hope I can, but actually probably will not share it for other reasons except in private with folks I trust.
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