Geneology of Fancy Carp

[bekko]

At another time and in another place, JR posted this genealogy poster. Thank you James, it is fun to look at. You may have to save the image and open it in a program with a zoom tool in order to read the fine print.


I have taken the liberty of updating the poster to reflect the current reality.



But this genealogy still bothers me.....

It is common for highly bred domesticated fish to have some offspring which are "reverts". That is to say, they appear to have reverted to a more ancestral form. This is not too surprising since the phenotype of the ancestral form will have to still be lurking somewhere there in the genome - just waiting for the right combination to come up on the ol' meiosis roll of the dice.

The Genealogy of Fancy Carp shows that kohaku descended from asagi and an asagi magoi line. I seem to recall having an asagi-like fish come out of a kohaku spawn, but that was 10 years ago and its all a little fuzzy now. I haven't noticed any asagi in kohaku spawns since then. It is possible that they are just being culled before the asagi pattern emerges, but I think its safe to say that there are not large numbers of asagi in the kohaku spawns I have seen.

The geneology image shows higoi being derived from a tetsu magoi line. I don't know what 'tetsu' means, but it looks more brown than blue. However, EVERY kohaku spawn will have a large percentage of higoi, and also plenty of shiro muji.

So, if the Genealogy of Fancy Carp is correct, then why don't asagi occur at a higher frequency than higoi in kohaku spawns?

-steve hopkins

[Bern]

Hi Steve,

It's a long time since I left school but I did study genetics for a short period of time because I was hooked on fish even at that age. We used Platties as our research material.

The terminology in use in those days was 'throwbacks' (reverts) and 'sports' which were a new phenomenon as opposed to the throwback which was a revert to the past. The proportion of throwbacks decreased as the variety was 'purified'.

I see you have moved Showa which I can't agree with. Even today Fujio Oomo produced a fair proportion of Hi-Utsuri from his Showa spawnings which betrays their origins. However, I see where you are coming from as Sanke has been used to improve Showa.

Lastly, Tetsu means Iron. The first three colour sports from Magoi were, Tetsu-magoi, Asagi Magoi and Doro-magoi(muddy).

rgds BERN

[dinh]

Thanks for the info. Very very interesting... Any data to proof that genealogy?
So, Asagi was the "mother" of Kohaku?????

Now you guys know why Dick B keeps ending up with
Asagi instead of Kohaku like many koi people in around the world;-)))))

--Dinh

[Bern]

Hi Dinh

As far as I know this (the chart) is the data.
The one above is a later reprint courtesy of Masao Kato.
I have a similar one in a book called "Live Jewels" - a general
survey of Fancy Carp by Masuyuki Amano which I picked up
in 1969. The chart in there mentions that it is a modified
version of an older one by a Masamoto Kataoka (i.e. the one
we are looking at now.) My copy of this book was published
in 1968.

rgds BERN