Sign of the Season

[James P]

Interesting! Plants know what time of year it is but koi don't? JR

[junglegeorge12]

Who said koi don't?

Koi can be tricked with water temp, kinda hard to do to an outdoor garden.

What are the best aphrodesiacs for koi JR?

[MikeM]

Everybody's winter is just a bit different, that's all. Which was my point in starting this thread. Kinda hard to understand what it means to try to create seasonal changes in a warm climate. ...Two of my koi moved to a new home over the weekend. They were much easier to catch after fasting a week.

[luke frisbee]

So MM what's your pond temp...the lake was 70 degrees this Morning...up 6 degrees in the last week

[James P]

Well, if you accept the premise that carp are evolved over the last ten thousands years to be creatures that are triggered by their changing environment into a series of hormonal cycles, then appreciating the need for temperature and light variation comes naturally. What may not come as naturally however is the idea of absolute vs variable numbers for that temperature/ light trigger. And further, what is ‘low’ and what is ‘high’ in terms of minimums.

Brett and others have noted that koi and carp can be ‘double clutched’ in tropical zones. The out come, in terms of esthetics, is rough on the females of course, but the fish survive and adapt.

Then there is the notion expressed by almost all Japanese breeders that seasonal variation brings about stronger, more colorful koi.

My slant on all this is that a true season, with temperature change, diet change and lighting change brings about the best looking and healthiest koi. But how much ‘change’ is change? I think the answer is , you’ll excuse the pun- a matter of degree. If you are looking to cycle a koi and ‘reboot’ its biological clock, a 20 degree difference between summer high and winter low is usually enough for the hormonal cycle series. The trick here, I think, is to get low enough that you can fast or dramatically reduce calorie intake. This is not a true state of stasis, but a mimic. In a true state of stasis, the metabolic rate is reduced to a low that causes the fish to draw down stored materials in the muscle, dermis, liver, brain and kidney. This accomplishes the ‘20 degree’ concept for hormonal cycling ( sex hormones) but also completes the greater metabolic cycle of a four season fish. In this latter case, because the cold blooded koi is trapped in metabolic isolation, the ‘swamp’ gets drained of stored material resulting in a fish that is more responsive to protein/amino acid stimulus in the next cycle. This is why Maeda, for instance, observed that his fish put outdoors for wintering quickly catch up to his indoor stock the following summer and usually were noticeable more colorful fish.

Going beyond the minimal low to accomplish this , we are in the survival zone where stress and endurance will save and destroy individual fish. This is therefore the realm of Mother Nature and not of nurturing hobbyists.

[junglegeorge12]

I agree with all of that JR, and more. both sides of the tropical vs seasonal debate have valid points. A wise man will make use of both.

Here are some more flowers Mike, did you like the last batch? I will get you few more I haven't had time to get yet tomorrow.

[MikeM]

Luke, I started fasting at Christmas because we had a cool spell. Now, as you know, we are having a warmer than normal period. It has near 80F the last few days. The pond was at 68F at 7pm today. But, a cold front is on the way. It will be in the 30s over the weekend. We'll see how dramatic a shift the pond temp does.

JR, I'm reading everything you say on this subject very carefully. I'm convinced about the importance of the seasonal approach. Short of getting a chiller, I'm going to do what I can.

Jungle, I love the variety of your garden. Some I recognize only from pictures I've seen, others I've seen in South Florida gardens. The yellow walking iris (what I call it) grows in my yard, but not the season for it to bloom here. (Dramatic photo for such a subdued beauty!) But in the most recent set of pics is something I am uncertain about. Next to the yellow iris is what looks like a Heliconia, but the leaves are all wrong. Is the foliage just background? ...Exotic stuff. A lot of beautiful tropicals. Wish they could all be grown here, but I think there are a few that might not care for even a light frost. So, how low do your pond temps get?

[PapaBear]

I'm in Oklahoma, it is the 3rd of January, and todays high was 77F. We usually have winters here. You know, Snow, Ice Storms, Highs in the 30's and 40's with lows in the teens and 20's, occasionally dipping around Zero. Hell, the only storms we've been having lately have been FIRESTORMS . 2 Months ago I had to cover my pond due to temps of 3-5F. Pulled the cover back weeks ago and now I'm worrying more about temp swings and premature spawning (might have to cove the d@mn thing back up to keep ashes from falling into it )
Definitely nothing like what I used to live with in Wyoming. -60 is friggin' cold. I'm afraid if I had tried to raise koi there I would have bought new every spring and eaten carp for halloween

[junglegeorge12]

Mike, not sure which yellow flower you are calling the 'walking iris'. The solid yellow flower (5"8" across) is called a canario, and is on a bush about 8 feet tall, 20 ft long, and over 500 flowers, hardly 'subdued'. Everyone who comes up our drive gapes at it in awe. It is beautiful and stunning. I am planning to grow it over some arbors and put a flower covered pagoda in it for sitting in the shade. When in full bloom it has about 2000 or more flowers. All of these bloom all year here. I knocked over half the flowers off putting Xmas lights up and trimming and prepping it for the arbor. My wife says lights she rarely sees are prettier than flowers she can always see, who am I to argue?

The wine/purple one is in the same family but is much larger (about 8'-10" across) and very fragrant. I also have two bouganvillas that are not in bloom right now. On one side of the house is lots more flowers I do not know the names of.

The other one with the black dots in the center and three petals is an orchid, it blooms every day, opens at daylight and closes at sunset. They grow wild here and we have about 1000 of them. If you want I can pot a few and send them to you. I have to dig a huge area of them up for the next koi pond anyway. The flower itself is only about 3-6" across when open.

The multi colored plant with the pattern on the leaves we call a 'Burning Bush'. There are about ten varieties of that with varying leaves and patterns in our garden.

The orange one with the reddish tips is something I do not recall the name of, I will look on the pots for them tomorrow.

Unfortunately, none of the trinitarias are blooming rihgt now (they bloom about once every two months) and they are beautiful and multicolored. I will get them next time they bloom.

Anything you see you like let me know and we will ship you one and see if it survives. Do you have a greenhouse or keep plants inside?

[junglegeorge12]

I am working on my camera skills, hope I improve soon. Did you see the poinsetta in the background? Behind it is my favorite tree, a cocoa tree. My wife makes us hot cocoa from it.

Here are some more, and my favorite thing, my son. I also noticed something in the mud pond today, it looked kinda like JR on recon. Then I came around the house and look at the dudes I saw staring at me from the trees. I am not sure who it was but I suspect kong or tewa......kinda freaky but they were nice after I offered them a cup of rainforest coffee and some saki

So then I just had to chill out to a nice sunset after looking thru the telescope at the chix on the cruise ship with a nice hot cocoa in my hand......