Dick Sorted Tosai Today...Nothing Blue....He's Blue

[Dan Blatt]

Some Sakai tosai that Dick wanted input on. Isawa Sakai, I believe.....enjoy

[dick benbow]

thanks Dan for posting...I quess I really threw myself into my work today. When I came home tonight the love of my life said I smelled a little "fishy"....
was mostly Gosanke with a few others thrown in....I had posted about the 3 week QT they went thru during rumors...but as you can see all turned out just fine.
I'll get Phyllis Anderson to post some more pics here so you can see some of the other koi....(her's is the gin showa) hope you enjoy...something about the promise of tosai......

[MikeM]

Oh, that first tub looks like a future full pond.

[koipondman]

I'm deleting the big pictures - there oughta be an instruction page on what sizes to post here!!

Phyllis

[koipondman]

Oops - let's try that again a bit smaller. Thanks for your patience as I figure out this uploading and posting picture business.


Phyllis

[dick benbow]

I think some of the joy of seeing all these little guys and pondering their futures, must be akin to someone who works for an adoption agency.


I know the ponds and the people that these little guys are going to and so i have the joy of matching them up correctly.

Mike the first group photo i thought of you because it had a coupla strong showa prospects....If I was teaching class in that photo I would select the one in the middle and talk about the heavy "false" black at the tail section. Under it is a beautifully sized quality tail stop in which the black will crawl off in the next year or two to expose to the delight of the owner a nice beni tail stop. the other showa is cage ( pronounced kaa-gay ) right now but it will eventually fill in with a solid black.

The kohaku in the orginal group shot of 4 is gonna be a big fish and have a big pattern. The beni is on the purple red side so I'm thinking it's probably a male but could very well have a female type developing body. The sanke in the first shot is probably gonna be a male as well and on the smaller side but will have a killer show pattern.

It's fun thinking about the fish breeder on the other side of the pond, contemplating their futures...tategoi to retain or tateshita to sell...and why he chose the way he did.

It was a fast day...way too short...but to be immersed in doing something you love makes for a good day...comments on any of the koi?

[koiczar]

Dick

The kohaku looks like it will be a very large fish in time. Good starting pattern for a large girl!
The sanke at the top does look male but would do nicely in a show at nisai or maybe even sansai if the color development holds out that long so the body can bulk up some. Personally, I like the possibilities of the showa on the left. The shiro on the nose matches the odome very well already. The other showa is a big gamble. I'm sure you know your fish better than anyone else so maybe the "baby" black will diminish. If so, it will balance much better.

I took my knew Japan purchases out of quarantine today and took a bunch of pics. I tried my best to get some good clean shots, especially of my hosokai sansai Asagi for you. Someone please provide me some guidance on how to post the pics on here. I have no clue!!!

Mike

[MikeM]

Dick:

A little off-subject, but maybe these koi are suitable for a lesson on Sumi.... When we see a tricolor koi, whether Sanke or Showa, at tosai, it may show the beginnings of the Sumi it will possess as an adult, or may only be showing the 'false sumi' or 'baby sumi' that fades in time. I often find myself wondering if the Sumi on a particular tosai in a dealer's vat is "coming or going". Even with nisai the "baby sumi" can give a false impression of what the adult will be like. Much heartbreak for the koikeeper getting young fish comes from mis-judging how the Sumi will behave.... and "baby sumi" on a Showa or Sanke can be eye-catching .... or cover-up the strong points of the fish.

I think it is very difficult to make a reliable guess without knowing the characteristics of the particular breeder's fish. But, perhaps you have some ideas that could help increase the percentage of guessing right?

[MikeM]

.....and I guess I should point out for the lurkers that "baby sumi" is not limited to tosai. Nisai can also have mainly the temporary Sumi of youth...camouflage coloring for young fish.

[dick benbow]

Mike/koiczar-I'd be excited to see pics of your koi posted! If someone would like to assist pls PM Mike asap.....( as you can see by this thread a koi buddy had to do it for me )

Mike, coupla things you can consider when trying to figure out tosai sumi. Matsunosuki based bloodline sanke tend to show their sanke sumi placement, but then it comes and goes for the next few years, not always confidence building as i've had them go some 6 years before stabilizing. It is very typical with showa tosai to throw a false black from the back of the dorsal to the end of the body at the tail. i suggest taking them outside in the sunshine and seeing if you can spy any beni underneath that might give you some hope it's there.

rule of thumb for gosanke; red is always strongest at the head and black is always strongest at the tail.

Translation: in sanke even if a koi only has one black showing on the shoulder,
chances are good the black will fill back in toward the tail. How many have seen tosai with stepped black from tail forward and the big missing shoulder sumi is all it needs right ? Go with the one that has the most critical shoulder
patch already established. Chances are better that one will turn out to satisfaction to the other one that is perfectly stepped...and for you mike and your showa love the translation is this: go for the tosai with hachi-wade and or menware as opposed to the one with nothing going on in the area weakest area for the same reason as sanke.

Conclusion: there are no guarantees in selection, each koi can be an individual but there are some learned mileposts to be able to look out for and i hope these will help. professsional breeders occassional will miss a tosai but the chances are increased with the purchase of tateshita that the odds are against you (especially in the fall ) Tara or "if" koi with much better odds are often sold in the spring just after the last sembetsu into the mud ponds. Now your knowledge and patience can be repaid.