Judging things rightly and peace in the forum

[joe bauer]

Quote: Originally Posted by Surfhead koi judges have dedicated their life to the hobby and spent years studying the finer aspects of these fish...you think they did this because they thought they were gonna get paid? They did it because they love koi...period. This isn't a Don King Production, it's a koi show. Common Charlie, we all know you are not talking in generalities and want to smear the reputation of one judge in particular. Why do this?

well, "we" don't all know it, but it does sound like you have a grudge against judges since you keep bringing it up. have you ever entered a fish in a koi show? do you feel that the judge(s) wronged you?

i can't imagine anyone taking on the job of judging a koi show. it seems like everyone would be second guessing you and questioning your opinion. combine that with what the japanese favor or the brits favor or what individuals favor and the bias of individual owners and you are not going to please everyone. you would probably have lots of friends before the show and only one afterward!

[joe bauer]

"Guess I better get baking."

are you that same cindy that runs poetry contests on another forum?

[gregbickal]

Why would someone need to bribe a judge? They could just spend the money on a fish worthy of winning.

[James P]

uhh, because we need the money?! Da!??? Judges have mortgages too, ya know!


LOLs, JR

[Charlie_23456]

Quote: Originally Posted by Surfhead koi judges have dedicated their life to the hobby and spent years studying the finer aspects of these fish...you think they did this because they thought they were gonna get paid? They did it because they love koi...period. This isn't a Don King Production, it's a koi show. Common Charlie, we all know you are not talking in generalities and want to smear the reputation of one judge in particular. Why do this?

You are right to a point Surfhead. I do have personal reasons why I posted this here and on Brian's Reflections post. I was really ticked off that the Koidoc made the following comment after the big ruckus over the GC post where Stephen pulled his ad. After Koidoc makes the below post,

Quote: Originally Posted by koidoc I think that was a good thing you did Brian. But like it or not having the magazine name on the board reflects back to the Magazine. I was one of the first people to get Koi-Bito magazine and considered it one of the best because it gave more direct information from the breeders themselves. I participate on most boards except this one. Only came here when directed from another Board. But when I come here and see the language from people like Luke it scares me. Who is on the chopping block this week? I came on and saw "Art the Fart" by Luke and I do not even know what he was reporting on. I think it was something at a show I had nothing to do with. So to stay away from this and the petty rambles and accustions I just do not participate on board or get a magazine that supports this board. I would not let a child read this forum, but I think there are other boards out there with moderators that have time, that are more family oriented and information oriented to educate. So now, when I with all that is done not just now but previously, I see Luke will get a 1 week time out. Can he get back on tomorrow with good behaviour? I would love to come back but do not feel welcome nor do I want to play silly games. As long as these people feel they have free rain, if that is what you want them to have, they will press the envelope and not for the betterment of the hobby. Only for the benefit of their group. I believe this can only hurt Koi Bito in the long run and that I think woul be a shame since the original objective semed to be genuine and provide for a niche in the hobby. I wish you well with your magazine. Let me know if situations change and you will have my subscription and others back. Yes I know, one subscription does not matter to you. Now I will have to lurk on this board next week to see what names they call me now. Good luck and again I thought it was a good letter you wrote to explain,

Stephen at KP of course praises him as well as his followers...shortly after, Koidoc is proclaimed the Koi person of the Year (even though he has only been there for maybe 5 or 6 months)...or something to that effect and awarded a "prize'. Now I'm sure he has done lots for Koiphen in other ways of informing and educating the flock in the Koi ways but the timing of his post and this event led me to question Koidoc's integrity. I admit I have never met the man and he might be as upright as the Pope, but I have no way to know that except for current events.

But seeing the responses here, I see no reason why a Koi judge would jeopardize his reputation by being bias with his judging, so my suspecions seem to be unfounded. Thank you.

Charlie

[joe bauer]

Quote: Originally Posted by Charlie_23456 You are right to a point Surfhead. I do have personal reasons why I posted this here and on Brian's Reflections post. I was really ticked off that the Koidoc made the following comment after the big ruckus over the GC post where Stephen pulled his ad. After Koidoc makes the below post, Stephen at KP of course praises him as well as his followers...shortly after, Koidoc is proclaimed the Koi person of the Year (even though he has only been there for maybe 5 or 6 months)...or something to that effect and awarded a "prize'. Now I'm sure he has done lots for Koiphen in other ways of informing and educating the flock in the Koi ways but the timing of his post and this event led me to question Koidoc's integrity. I admit I have never met the man and he might be as upright as the Pope, but I have no way to know that except for current events. But seeing the responses here, I see no reason why a Koi judge would jeopardize his reputation by being bias with his judging, so my suspecions seem to be unfounded. Thank you. Charlie

now chucky, don't you feel better now. why didn't you just say what you meant from the get go?

[junglegeorge12]

I believe the koidoc also later came back on the forum on the same thread and announced he was renewing his subscription to Koi-Bito and that he was not right to have cancelled like that. He apologized in his own way. You know, lots of folks have different ways of helping this hobby, not everyone has the same ideas or set of priorities and values, and they are not supposed to. But, to be ethical and reliable people we have to stick to our values and priorities.

Brian did that and has done that ever since I have seen this site around. Koidoc has very strong values as well, if you know him. He is dedicated to reliable and righteous info. He also has readily admitted many times in the past being wrong and corrected himself publicly, an admirable trait in my eyes. I have seen him hurt his own reputation just to prevent folks from doing something that would just make the koi temporarily uncomfortable. That is ethics. For Brian to accomplish his mission with the forum and magazine, he has to stick to his values and priorities. I know the level of info in his magazine and forum is the only reason US breeders are now starting to move forward in quality. They were stuck for 20 years before Brian did this. They did not know who was really who or who to listen to about what.

The information doors he has opened others can pass through as well, but before he opened that door the info out there was confusing, ambiguous, and not truly designed to help the hobby or breeders here. He advanced the hobby here more in the pat few years than it did for 20 years prior. Before, the only way to learn anything was to buy old books, trial and error, and to have enough money to travel to All Japan shows and be able to afford to, and to luck up and buddy up with someone who knew something worthwhile and hang out with them. In other words, you had to be rich AND lucky.

For koidoc to accomplish his mission, he has to stick to his values and priorities. Honestly, prior to this site his forum ws the only one I trusted, but there were several sites adn good articels outther if you DUG. Noone just handed it to you. Now it is all on here on a silver platter and we fight more???? I don't get it. Now their ethics are the same, but their values and priorities differ on some points, according to their mission. It is nice to see them both understanding and supporting each other in spite of clear differences of priorities. I think both of them are totally trustworthy. People capable of doing what they are doing that we can all trust to come out with information and articles and magazines we can fully trust.

So to both of you, thanks for your contributions, and carry on! Please do us the favor of helping and supporting each other. Otherwise the info will once more become confusing and ambiguous for the new and learning koi artists.

[MikeM]

Nothing in all that to be concerned about. (And, remember, Stephen is refusing to show...though I hope somebody changes his mind.)

Judges are human. The more serious concern is that a judge might favor a fish in a close competition if he/she knew it was that of a friend, or be down on it out of concern of being perceived as favoring a friend. To overcome the possibility of being subconciously influenced, or being perceived as influenced by such knowledge, most judges stay away from the show tanks until the entries are ready to be judged. They do not want to be influenced, and do not want to be perceived as influenced by such factors. These folks work awfully hard to attain the status of certified judge, and spend considerable sums to meet the standards and then go judge shows. I'll dump on some of their decisions, but I'd not question that they truly believe what they say when it comes to judging koi. These folks are among the ultimate of crazies in this hobby... and everyone of them I know would be greatly distressed and enraged if any of their fraternity based their judging on anything but their honest opinion of the koi in front of them. The respect of their fellow judges means more to most of them than just about anything else in this world.

[Surfhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by Charlie_23456 You are right to a point Surfhead. I do have personal reasons why I posted this here and on Brian's Reflections post. I was really ticked off that the Koidoc made the following comment after the big ruckus over the GC post where Stephen pulled his ad. After Koidoc makes the below post, Charlie

You don't like something he posted so you attack him and say he is on the take? you publicly try to harm his reputation with no foundation, no proof and no justification? There is a word for that...liable. Its childish and you owe him an apology.

The awards on Koiphen are not some glorious prestigious event. There is no monetary compensation. It's fun and it lets those who are the most helpful feel appreciated. And koidoc is one of the most helpful people on the board. always posting great info on judging and choosing fish. He has spent countless hours posting on the basics of judging fish. Looking to buy a particular fish? send him the dealers photo and he will spend 20 min analyzing it and pick it apart for you. He deserves to know that his friends appreciate the time he has spent helping others. He doesn't deserve to have his reputation smeared by the likes of you.

[jnorth]

Its the web. Tempers flair sometimes. Forgive, forget, move on.