Judging things rightly and peace in the forum

[Surfhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by koidoc Joe and Charlie-Oh I get it now. I know why Joe was kicked off Koiphen with Charlie. You are both the same person. That is how you stir up trouble with Good Cop, Bad Cop. I see you are doing it on a few threads. Does Brian condone this as well? At Least I have the integrity to talk for myself. No hiding.

I know, its SOOO transparent. the banter back and fourth, the perfect response moments after the first. Its like he is trying too hard to convince everybody by having an agrument with himself. he really must have nothing better to do...kinda sad when you think about it.

[Charlie_23456]

After further review....I retract my apology to Koidoc. IMO, he appears to have a public side and a computer side.

Originally Posted by koidoc
Joe and Charlie-Oh I get it now. I know why Joe was kicked off Koiphen with Charlie. You are both the same person. That is how you stir up trouble with Good Cop, Bad Cop. I see you are doing it on a few threads. Does Brian condone this as well? At Least I have the integrity to talk for myself. No hiding.
I know, its SOOO transparent. the banter back and fourth, the perfect response moments after the first. Its like he is trying too hard to convince everybody by having an agrument with himself. he really must have nothing better to do...kinda sad when you think about it.
__________________
Hello! My name is Endigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die!

I have never posted on KP after being banned Jun of this year as myself or as an alias...who would want to go back to a forum with their moderation and tactics? Yes, I am a member of Newt's board as well as many other boards.

Charlie

[junglegeorge12]

I think there needs to be clarification of technology and some mercy for steven here. He is being given outdated info not totally reliable. IPs used to be considered the way to identify folks. However, many ISPs, to protect their cleints from hackers and malicious software, began using the same IP adress to present everyone inside their network to the world with. Still otheres on certain LARGE cable and sattelite tv networks reassign the same IPs over and over to you every time you log on and every 3 hours to protect you as well. The result is tens of thousands of people sharing the same EXTERNAL IP adress that justin sees, but different internal ones or simply reassigned ones. The newer server software platforms do it that way. Still others ISps intentionally hide the external IP and give a false one out. Only official inquiries get the real info to protect their clients adn especially business clients. The odds he was given are the odds of the same person inside the same network getting the same IP on a system that maintain static adresses(no reassignment). So he is being kind of misled with half true info. I do not think he is doing it intentionally, but is truly trying to correct what he incorrectly perceives as injustice or debauchery. My guess would be the gusy he thinks are all the same are actually just on the same cable or sattelite network that gives the sem external IP to everyone. That is why our gracious host Brian, is very carful about how he approaches that issue. What Steven needs is an upgrade from amatuer PI junk to the real deal of getting nic adresses from the network cards. That is 100% reliable. Like a serial number on a car. however, it does nto prevent skilled people from presenting themselves ont he net as you with your info and nic and IP. Worse yet, some ISPs are doing that automatically to protect their clients, especially if they host alot of businesses. So information warfare can easily turn into disinformation.

[gregbickal]

Yep, ive mentioned Proxy Servers before. Single IP addy going out on the wire for all of your users.

Also, users can have a floating IP addy (which gets assigned from a pool when they boot up their machine), or a static IP which is the same every time they use their computer.

[junglegeorge12]

That is right Greg, one of my certs is as an MCSE (Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer).

I can think of about ten ways off of the top of my head that could be happening. The 3 greg listed are the most common.

Nowadays it is not just ISPs involved, but routers and switches that handle the traffic for certain geographic sectors or sectors of governemnt or industry will give out either bogus or the same IP for everyone. Check the IPs on all the different federal facilties in DC for example. Everyone utilizing those routers, will get the same one. National security, and vital commerce and industry infrastructure are protecting their assets.

[JPennington]

Quote: Originally Posted by junglegeorge12 I think there needs to be clarification of technology and some mercy for steven here. He is being given outdated info not totally reliable. IPs used to be considered the way to identify folks. However, many ISPs, to protect their cleints from hackers and malicious software, began using the same IP adress to present everyone inside their network to the world with. Still otheres on certain LARGE cable and sattelite tv networks reassign the same IPs over and over to you every time you log on and every 3 hours to protect you as well. The result is tens of thousands of people sharing the same EXTERNAL IP adress that justin sees, but different internal ones or simply reassigned ones. The newer server software platforms do it that way. Still others ISps intentionally hide the external IP and give a false one out. Only official inquiries get the real info to protect their clients adn especially business clients. The odds he was given are the odds of the same person inside the same network getting the same IP on a system that maintain static adresses(no reassignment). So he is being kind of misled with half true info. I do not think he is doing it intentionally, but is truly trying to correct what he incorrectly perceives as injustice or debauchery. My guess would be the gusy he thinks are all the same are actually just on the same cable or sattelite network that gives the sem external IP to everyone. That is why our gracious host Brian, is very carful about how he approaches that issue. What Steven needs is an upgrade from amatuer PI junk to the real deal of getting nic adresses from the network cards. That is 100% reliable. Like a serial number on a car. however, it does nto prevent skilled people from presenting themselves ont he net as you with your info and nic and IP. Worse yet, some ISPs are doing that automatically to protect their clients, especially if they host alot of businesses. So information warfare can easily turn into disinformation.

Good Afternoon JungleGeorge --

While several ISP's do have multiple proxy servers between their clients and the web, most do not. We can also tell when a proxy server is being used, so obviously we don't ban those people. Most cable networks (comcast, road runner, etc.) use dynamic addresses with endless leases, so until the power goes out or the user unplugs the modem, the IP stays the same. DSL modems also get their own public addresses most of the time, but each time they connect the lease is renewed, thus getting a new IP. Generally, only the last octet changes, so it isn't a problem. When we see two user names logging in from a unique static IP address over and over again, that pretty much gives them away.

Scanning MAC addresses is a good idea, but it suffers from the same problems, it is just as unrealiable as tracking IP addresses. MAC addresses can be spoofed, just like IP's. In fact, you can spoof a mac address using the same software you would to connect to a site via a proxy server. Nothing is 100% reliable in the computer world, I'm sure you can agree with that.

Koiphen.com isn't a fortress, it doesn't need to be. We could implement all kinds of security, but all it would do is cause more problems for the good people. Nothing is completely secure on the internet, it just works at levels. The higher the level the more motivated someone would have to be. We are all here to talk about the koi, we don't want to waste hours each day analyzing network logs.

It's all about the hobby folks! Happy Holidays from Koiphen.com!

-Justin Pennington

[junglegeorge12]

I agree it is about the hobby not cyber fortresses Justin. I also know for fact that road runner renews your IP every 3 hours, so does cox and time warner. So do most sattelite networks. So the thing of it being only a few used to be true, now it is most. Also there is the higher security level concerns that ISPs have nothing to do with that I mentioned. Gas companies, nuke plants, water treatment, law enforcement, etc all are doing a nubmber of things that results in IP address 'errors'. They work on the router, switch, and server levels.

You are right about the MAC adresses as I also stated, anyone can be mimicked. zdnet and many other places have that software downloadable for free. In fact, a devious person can make folks mimic each other. All they have to do is telnet in a ip release and reassign, if they r skilled it takes 30 seconds or less. Responding to their email gives em all the info they need for that. What I am trying to say is it is entirely possible charlie is a victim here and not in any way related to newt or joe. I can tell from his past posts he does know the chesapeake area (I used to live there) so I do not think he is lying. Someone is playing a trick OR automated server side or router software is doing it. inmho

I think someone is victimizing both steven, you, and charlie. jmho

it's a cute trick designed to make a war and charlie is the biggest victim of all in it.

[junglegeorge12]

also Justin, we are going to see a huge increase in that type of thing as internet traffic increases and as the Homeland security and other agencies deploy tactics to foil terror or hostile network efforts and hackers. It is entirely possible the Homeland Security Dept is at fault. I know you guys have your conflicts with newt and others but also know the world is bigger and badder than that.

You do a great job running the sofware and hardware side of koiphen justin. I do not always agree with the moderations, but hey, we are all in a learning process. We are also all just getting to really know one another in an often confusing world. I think I read Steven wrong at first too. Honestly, I thought at first he was out to take over the whole industry and smash everyone else out. Now I think he is what he says he is and I jumped to a defensive conclusion out of concern and past experiences. So, my apologies Steven.

If he were in it for the money, he would be making more of it by now. From what I can see, he is only spending money and huge amounts of time. SO I think I misread him. The domain name deal kind of made me jump to conclusions that may have been premature, at least I hope it was and now I think it was. I think that issue has alot of people jumpy, and fearful, which I totally understand.

Just out of curiosity, where does the money to pay you and the other costs needed to run koiphen come from? Does Steven fund it all personally or is there a way to generate income I am missing? Do not feel obligated to answer that, I am asking hoping to learn something.

[Surfhead]

I don't know for sure and don't want to speak for Stephen or Justin, but I have never seen any paid advertsing on Koiphen. I always assumed Stephen paid the operating expenses out of his own pocket. I think I read on one of the posts that the moderators are all volunteers. I think many of those helping with the koiphen show are volunteers as well. not sure about Justin though thats a lot of work to do for free.

as far as I know, every koi endeavor Stephen has done (at least that I am aware of) has been non-profit, for the good of the hobby.

[aquitori]

Is this thread teaching us about CCNA or Koi? Shot if we can get a cert on this thread in regards to IP addresses, submasks and gateways addresses on routers and hosts. Then let's talk CCNA...