Judging things rightly and peace in the forum

[junglegeorge12]

"JG another thread is not necessary. That crap doesn't belong on this board." Ruth Rice

I agree with you Ruth, especially at this time, that is a concern that should be handled with the people putting on the individual shows, and the judges in pm and private communications. Airing what can be made to look like dirty laundry is not a good idea most of the time.

However, I also think those new or learning have the right to ask honest questions and express legitimate concerns and get clear, fair, and honest answers. I am not sure if charlie was referring to anyone directly or just raising the issue in general. I can think of about 10 possible folks he 'may' have been referring to. Does buying a judge a steak and cheese sub count? I do not think ANYONE on any forum I know of wants to win a show unfairly, and if they are being accused of that I think it is out of place and misjudged motives. However, accountability does tend to keep the human heart from running itself amuck. So I am kind of open to either approach.

Either way, can this discussion , if it does continue, happen here rather than on Brian's purposely clarifying and peaceful thread?

Peace out.

[Charlie_23456]

So...here is the question again...

Koi Judges and their integrity...Can Koi judges that frequent Koi boards, accept gifts and still be impartial when it comes time to judge fish?

Where do you draw the line...a trinket, cookies or baked goods, accepting lunch/dinner, aleather jacket, a Koi2Kichi Limited edition or maybe even a trip to Japan?

Or is it too taboo to talk about such things? I have concerns because human nature being what it is, people can be tempted and others could have doubts whether, when it comes time to judge, the judging will be totally impartial.

[junglegeorge12]

for me charlie a gift does not mean anything. I think most judges are not gonig to let gifts sway their decisions. They might hope those offering gifts think so though! My concerns in that area would be elsewhere. Ie folks that have long standing friendships or offenses with particular breeders or buyers and be excited over or mad over what is going with them. That might make it easier to find that little flaw and focus on it or to overlook that little flaw, even if it is not done maliciously or intentionally. However, that being said, most judges are not that easily swayed, have their own personal appearance preferences that preside(even if that slants them to ne breeder)

Like for me, I love reddish kohaku. For me(and I am not a judge and do not pretend to be) to give a gc to sanke or showa or orangish/yellow kohaku would go against my personal view of beauty and worth in koi. Would that mean I tended towards certain breeders whom I would also probably admire and like to be friends with? Probably. Does that mean it is wrong? Nope. It is what I like and value. I think most judges are just like that. I do not think they can be bought. Also, every show has multiple judges. Is that not enough safegaurd?

On the gift line, I think rolls royces r ok, jets, and mansions. But good fresh home baked cookies and fresh coffee? Hell no, who wouldnt that sway? So big gifts r ok, but small possibly emotional gifts attaced to the stomach, I think we have to gaurd against those! I know many a man who would walk right by a girl who owned rolls and mansions to get to the girl with the cookie plate.....so no fresh homemade cookies.

[jnorth]

They seem fair enough when they judge mine. It's a team of judges anyway, not just one.

[Valarc]

As a point of comparison - I remember a certain judge specifically posting to a koi board asking any folks who were going to be entering fish at the Charlotte show NOT to post pictures of those fish several weeks before the show. He wanted to make absolutely sure he had no idea which fish belonged to which person. Gee, I wonder who that outstandingly honorable judge was....

[Brad Koikichi]

I can say that the Judges I have met and have worked with at Koi Shows are Straight Shooters . Integrity comes from the Heart not the Wallet. I do not think a Gift , Lunch, or a Jacket is going to sway a whole panel of Judges. Do you really think a ZNA or AKCA Judge is going ruin or tarnish His or Her judging seat ? It is a honor to judge at a Show .

[koiczar]

I have chaired 4 koi shows. I have had the honor and priveledge to meet and now know many judges. I have never won a champion trophy at any size. Afew best in sizes and tons of 1st places. The last two shows I chaired, I requested certain judges from AKCA and they were provided. Why would I do that? Did I have alterior motives? You bet!! I wanted to make sure I had the best judging teams I could get. Those who were highly respected by our members and general koi keepers at large and above all, those with the highest level of integrity.

Sure, I've heard rumors about certain judges. When I start asking pointed questions at the accusor(s) I find that the accusations are merely superficial signs of jealousy, envy and spite because their fish didn't beat out so and so's fish, even though this expert koi keeper felt they should have. THAT'S SHOWING!! On any given day one fish can look better than another. Just make sure you do everything you can to make your fish look it's best for that day and hope!!

Mike

[cindy]

Guess I better get baking.

[James P]

Silly subject

Folks, when people start paying my air fare, airport parking, car rental, kennel fees, lost wages and commissions and compensation for time away from my daughter THEN we can talk about bribs to pick the right fish! Lets see-- my cost to judge an average koi show--- about $2000. Brib to move a $400 fish to first place--- how about $3000? You do the math! LOLs. JR

[Surfhead]

koi judges have dedicated their life to the hobby and spent years studying the finer aspects of these fish...you think they did this because they thought they were gonna get paid? They did it because they love koi...period. This isn't a Don King Production, it's a koi show. Common Charlie, we all know you are not talking in generalities and want to smear the reputation of one judge in particular. Why do this?