buying a prize

[keokoi]

MikeP and JR, I sure hope you guys talking about Joe Bauer and not me

The other Joe

[keokoi]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brutuscz I would certainly get more satisfaction raising a young koi to be a GC. It takes skill and dedication to accomplish that. Where is the skill walking into sakai hiroshima and whipping out a checkbook..saying..."give me a winner guys!!". There is nothing morally wrong with it...but where is the enjoyment that comes with this type of victory? There is nothing to be proud of because you, personally, did not accomplish anything. Bill Gates could do this and whip all our butts...but it doesn't make him a koi keeper!!

Brutus, I mean this in a very kind way. But how would you know what a GC is if you have never seen one or have any to study and learn from. No doubt its really an accomplishment to do. So without out these so called ringers. What koi will you study in person????

I think we need to encourage this instead of discourage. Majority of people cannot see what real Nishikigoi look like and sometimes even the GC's are no comparison to what is swimming over in Japan.

JR I hope to make a show in Japan reall soon. That would educate me even more. Its funny how even though breeders/hobbyist compete against each other but they still working side by side at the show to make it an enjoyable one.

Joe

[James P]

No Keo, not you, you had it exactly right in the way you expressed how you look at the koi in a koi show- a learning experience. Its pretty great when a dozen or so people will bring out their best so that you and I can look them over, compare and learn.

When we are at home looking at our koi we come to know which fish are technically best, which ones we like the most and which is the 'queen' of the pond. When the queen gets to a koi show however, the deck has been shuffled and you get to see how she looks against others of her own variety. A huge visual learning experience and you get more out of that one or two hour walk around than by reading ten books or spending a week on the internet.
Likewise, going to Japan and taking in one of the big shows for a weekend, causes you to move out of your current perspective and into another.

As you just said, how can you know a GC type fish if you have never seen one ( many actually is needed to fine tune the eye). A picture is not helpful!
JR

[gregbickal]

As a hobbiest, for me to want to show a koi, it would need to be about the husbandry skills. Growing up in rural Iowa farming community, thats what Animal shows have ment to me my whole life.

[James P]

Hi Greg. Now I'm going to say something that is NOT meant as a sleight or an insult- honest, it isn't. Ok? Don't take it that way--


There is an organized hobby. Has been since the last 1960's. With traditions and evolutions. To arrive on the scene without actually contributing to that tradition, it's daily operation or evolution, it's financial well being, etc and tell us what ' it should be', is a tad arrogant. Can you see than from our/my point of view? I chalk this all up as 'innocent arrogance' so I'm not offended, just frustrated. In days of old, before the Internet you would be forced to seek out these organizations to get education. Instead we now go to the internet to become educated. Something is gained- but a whole lot is lost.

[keokoi]

Quote: Originally Posted by gregbickal As a hobbiest, for me to want to show a koi, it would need to be about the husbandry skills. Growing up in rural Iowa farming community, thats what Animal shows have ment to me my whole life.

Greg, I think there are some shows that have this award at a show. Its called best tank ( or something like that) The judges or club members tour the show vats. Its recognizable which koi have a good enviroment and good keeper.

I think most folks look at only GC as a prize which in point there are many. To name a few:

Baby Grand Champion: A Skill to pick out a mini version and completed koi.

Best tategoi: a skill to pick out a future potential fish.


I think this is one of those things. Play within your means. If you don't have the wallet to play GC. Then play where you can. Either way you learn.

Joe

[Brutuscz]

Quote: Originally Posted by keokoi Brutus, I mean this in a very kind way. But how would you know what a GC is if you have never seen one or have any to study and learn from. No doubt its really an accomplishment to do. So without out these so called ringers. What koi will you study in person???? I think we need to encourage this instead of discourage. Majority of people cannot see what real Nishikigoi look like and sometimes even the GC's are no comparison to what is swimming over in Japan. JR I hope to make a show in Japan reall soon. That would educate me even more. Its funny how even though breeders/hobbyist compete against each other but they still working side by side at the show to make it an enjoyable one. Joe

Joe...I have only entered one show about 5 years ago with 6 koi. It was an MAKC show in NY. I came away with 4 first place trophies...best kohaku, best size 2...also 2 second place trophies as well as the judge's award (nice bottle of sake). I have been to about 6 shows besides the one I was in. I have been in this hobby about 7 years now. My local dealer has a kohaku that was 3rd place in the all japan koi show about 5 yrs ago. My point is...I have seen very good koi...and from a group, I can usually pick the winner pretty accurately. I picked a few winners this year for my local dealer to enter in a show...and they all won. So..I think I have a decent eye for picking koi. I am planning on entering a show next season...so hopefully I will prove this. I am definitely a student of koi keeping...and I am constantly trying to improve my eye and knowledge. Hopefully, a trip to japan will be in my future.

[Brutuscz]

Joe...I assumed you meant me personally. If you meant how would bill gates or donald trump know? They wouldn't have to...hire a guy like ray abell or carl (keirin) to get it for them as a broker. With a $1,000,000 check...I guarantee these guys are coming home with a winner from japan. If someone would like to loan (give!!) me the million...I can prove it to you!!!

[keokoi]

Brutus, Hats off to you and your accomplishments and awards. I think that is terrific and also that you want to test your eye and enter more shows for education. Kinda my point to begin with. But education is never ending and competition is forever changing. Gotta think how you got such a good eye? Well maybe because you were exposed to seeing good fish. So should'nt we encourage all the good fish to come out?

Its great that you could pick out the winner of the show. I think many can do this as well as the competiton is usually So wouldn't it be a bit more challenging if there were a dozen ringers to better your eye????

Curious to what 3rd place in what category your dealer took?

I too am lucky that a dealer I go to has won best in size awards and even a Baby Grand Champion.

Joe

[Brutuscz]

Thanks Joe..I personally have no problem with someone bringing in a ringer. I just don't see the satisfaction you get from this type of win..when you played no part in it. I would get more satisfaction if I raised the koi in my own pond. I would like to see more awards such as best "raised by owner" Where you would have to have it in your pond for at least 3 yrs.

I don't know what category she took third. It is a female kohaku that he uses for breeding now. It has some shimi's now..but you can tell it was amazing in its prime. Its at comets to koi in connecticut. I have to ask steve who the breeder was...he told me before, but I forgot. It might be suda or marudo..but I am unsure.