buying a prize

[gregbickal]

James, no insult taken. Im not saying what it has to be, Im saying if koi shows want to increase participation of people like myself, that is my suggestion for how to do it.

I appreciated the beauty of koi long before I ever went to my first show. It was not the sight of a $10k Grand Champion that hooked me, but the sight of thousands of worthless mutts in the Omaha Zoo pond.

If koi shows did not exisit, I would still own and appreciating koi.

[kingkong]

Yes you are lucky Joe having such great resources with great koi to see. You are also very lucky in the fact you don't seem to have the "I gotta have" temperament. Well I do and it's a personality condition that I try to live with every day. I spent 2 years hunting and spending for koi with hopes of having some 'Queens' that look as good as show displayed magnificence . The light went on a little while ago after gazeing at my hopefuls in my pond. My legs felt weak,
hands became chilled and a sudden weight like a sack of potatoes fell on my back. My Lord, I have not one koi that turned out like that GC cherry red kohaku that my wife and I saw at that Show. Now, do I envy people that can attain these extremely rare high quality koi overnight? Envy.... I want to draw and quarter em and leave their remains for the vultures. Other than that, it is a good education, I guess. An education of self-discipline.

[keokoi]

GarySan, I have that attitude somewhat. But those that know me know that I am rarely get excited on a koi. My reasoning is because I get to see so many. So chances are I will get to see something else I like. next harvest anyhow. I think when studying the koi in Japan I realize my standard goes up a notch while I am there. Why you may ask? Well its because a lot of great koi to see. Can't help but to excercise your eye.

Gary, you always are welcome to go to Japan with me and the crew.



Joe


PS: Bonsai Mentality. Wouldn't you love to have a finished tree by John Naka only to take care of it? Still gotta keep it alive but now you get to study it in person rather by picture..

[joe bauer]

i have found this very enlightening. my take from the answers is that koi owners have no problems with someone buying a fish and having the dealer deliver it to the show, it is done all the time.

i suspect the idea that there are some GC's hidden away in private ponds by owners who don't know what they have is an urban myth. it takes too much to raise a fish like that and the person with it could not keep it a secret.

i will say this, i have a lot of respect for someone who can pick out a young fish, raise it, and win in a koi show. that shows a lot of knowledge, ability, and dedication. what percentage of GC winners do it that way.

[Surfhead]

not sure who "joe" is ir isn;t but THIS thread seems to have a positive intent so I will add mu two cents.

I personally don't see the thrill of buying a GC and having the dealer take it to the show for you. But I have no moral problem with it, its about the fish, its not a competion of who can provide the best environment for their fish...its about the fish. It was once explained to me they the owner does not get the award, the fish does...the owner just holds onto it. And from the dealer standpoint I can see this being a great thing. I think the dealer gets more out of his fish being named GC and the dealer might even insist that they hold on to it so they can enter it into the competition. Also, as an American, if you want to enter your fish into the All Japan show you have no choice but to leave it in Japan as a fish cannot be entered if it has ever left Japan.

[James P]

Well, I guess I'm kinda talking to the wall here so I'll give up but before I go, let me try one more time- cause I'm stubborn----

A koi show is NOT just a competition. It is an exhibition and a learning experience. The big fish has a definite place, for the learning experience and to capture the imagination of the public ( who are ALWAYS blown away by the big fish) .

Any one who thinks it is possible for a home grown one year old to mature in a backyard pond and win GC in a major western show hasn't been to many koi shows??!! The fish that win koi shows are the top of the genetic pile. They are therefore not sold off so easily by the breeder. Koi Breeders in Japan come in many different levels- like musicians, they can be liked to high school band members right up to Carnegie hall professionals. The super star breeders KNOW their koi and don’t sell off the creme de la creme so easily! They hold them because they know that they will get many more yen when the time is right TO sell them. The exception to this rule is--- IF you are willing to pay for what it WILL be before it gets there- The breeder will part with the prospect. Because then the buyer is taking the risk of that educated gamble. It is not unusual to see tosai sell for $10,000 in such a case.

So buying tosai and expecting to see them go to 36 inches and have the body and sheen of a hot Hiroshima 6 year old is kinda like buying cracker jacks expecting to find a diamond ring at the bottom of the box!

If you do want to try and out think, out grow and out finish a master breeder , at least concentrate on buying his three year olds. That way, you get further along, have the benefit of the wonder bread years being spent in mud ponds and if you are very lucking and skilled, you may have a shot in some shows.

[kingkong]

Bonsai have no restrictions other than species of plant that will grow in my area. The sky is the limit as far as size, design over all form. The koi hobby is a different discipline. How am I going to compete with or duplicate a 88 cm (34") Izumiya kohaku? I would love to but I am also realistic and do not enjoy false hopes. As Dan Quayle once said "If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure".

[joe bauer]

Quote: Originally Posted by James P Well, I guess I'm kinda talking to the wall here so I'll give up but before I go, let me try one more time- cause I'm stubborn---- A koi show is NOT just a competition. It is an exhibition and a learning experience. The big fish has a definite place, for the learning experience and to capture the imagination of the public ( who are ALWAYS blown away by the big fish) . Any one who thinks it is possible for a home grown one year old to mature in a backyard pond and win GC in a major western show hasn't been to many koi shows??!! The fish that win koi shows are the top of the genetic pile. They are therefore not sold off so easily by the breeder. Koi Breeders in Japan come in many different levels- like musicians, they can be liked to high school band members right up to Carnegie hall professionals. The super star breeders KNOW their koi and don’t sell off the creme de la creme so easily! They hold them because they know that they will get many more yen when the time is right TO sell them. The exception to this rule is--- IF you are willing to pay for what it WILL be before it gets there- The breeder will part with the prospect. Because then the buyer is taking the risk of that educated gamble. It is not unusual to see tosai sell for $10,000 in such a case. So buying tosai and expecting to see them go to 36 inches and have the body and sheen of a hot Hiroshima 6 year old is kinda like buying cracker jacks expecting to find a diamond ring at the bottom of the box! If you do want to try and out think, out grow and out finish a master breeder , at least concentrate on buying his three year olds. That way, you get further along, have the benefit of the wonder bread years being spent in mud ponds and if you are very lucking and skilled, you may have a shot in some shows.

pardon my ignorance on this, and thank you for your patience, but are you saying that the only way to get a GC is to have someone raise it for you?

[kingkong]

Lets don't think out of our own wallets here for a moment Joe. Lets say you are set in life, I hope you are, would you rather take a chance with a three year old for 10k and leave her in Japan to grow our spend 40k for a knock dead show stopper delvered in your pond in 2 weeks?

[joe bauer]

Quote: Originally Posted by kingkong Lets don't think out of our own wallets here for a moment Joe. Lets say you are set in life, I hope you are, would you rather take a chance with a three year old for 10k and leave her in Japan to grow our spend 40k for a knock dead show stopper delvered in your pond in 2 weeks?

tough call, i really don't know which i would do for my own pond. but i would not have it delivered to a show and then hold my head up when i accepted the prize.