buying a prize

[joe bauer]

i read where one can call a dealer, but a fish, have the dealer take the fish to a show for you, and win a prize.

this just does not sound right to me and i would like to know how it is justified.

without using names or saying who has done what, can this be discussed by koi keepers in an open and honest manner?

the reason it does not seem right to me is that it makes winning a koi show come down to one thing - MONEY.

is it considered ethical to buy and show a fish that has never been in the owner's pond?

[Brutuscz]

From what I understand (...and I may be wrong) This is pretty common. I have never been to japan, but don't many people buy a koi and leave it with the dealer to raise in a mud pond? I don't particularly like it, but it seems well accepted.

[JohnBender]

This is a common practice for the inexperience hobbyist who buys expensive fish and wants to show them. When I am talking about expensive fish I am talking about jumbo size fish.

Conditioning is a big factor for any fish when it comes to showing. The fish has to be in top condition for it to do well. An inexperienced hobbyist will not know how to condition a fish. So the dealer will do all of that just for the client.

[junglegeorge12]

I don't think it is an ethics question joey. I do identify with your feelings though.I think in most animal shows, from horses to dogs and cats and birds, the same thing happens. Many folks 'grow their own' and win and feel double blessed for having accomplished it from start to finish. Other folks go out and hire people to breed and raise the animals for them and grow and at home, and still others have made a business raising to win shows, then selling them to those interested to take and show. Their buyers range from folks who just luck up to folks who scour the world looking for the prize koi, and can afford to buy it when they find it, and love the koi enough to do it and treasure it when they get it. The folks who raise them get their prize from just raising them and breeding them and getting paid for it! Their customers usually hunt ceaselessly for the 'perfect koi' and are passionate hobbiests. Are they any less honorable than the folks who won't spend a dime and won't walk past the mailbox to find a nice koi? Not in my eyes. In most of the animal world that is very common and not considered unethical. Of course the guy who grew his own feels more accomplishment when he wins, but it is supposed to be about the koi, not their owners.

[luke frisbee]

yeah BUT....
So I can tolerate buying the $6 trophy in the premise it is "all about the koi".
But if it is all about the koi then there shouldn't a rule not alowwing koi that dealers own...remember it is ALL about the koi.
What's the difference if someone pays for the GC just before the show or just after?.......another 50-100%?
Who cares if it is ALL about the koi.

[Valarc]

I've got to say - a lot of good level headed stuff has been coming from JG lately. I'm glad to see it, and happen to agree completely with what he just said!

On another note, "joe"... it's bad enough you pulled this "make a fake name to stir the pot" crap on koiphen - do you really need to bring it to brian's board, too? Maybe you're counting on the fact that bito doesn't have moderators, and your garbage will stay for a while longer without a team of moderators who can see you for what you are. Stick to newt's where no one cares what you say and leave your crap off a fine board like bito.

[joe bauer]

i don't understand your responce. i thought my question was fairly straight forward.

i feel that most koi keepers are mature enough to discuss this.

if you want to start something unpleasant, please do it on another forum.

[Valarc]

Play the innocent here like you did over there too, "Joe" - those who read koiphen already know your game, and those who post here will know soon enough.

I'm through responding to you and will enjoy the "hey valarc was right" posts that are sure to come soon.

[joe bauer]

you say, "I'm through responding to you". i'll take you at your word.

[Charlie_23456]

So...who really are you Joe...Everyone from KP assumes you are me...but I know you aren't and you know you aren't. Why not lay the cards on the table?

What is there to hide?