koi show ethics - nisai vs tosai

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by cocoyboy Yeah, I haven't been on so often but I still try to read threads when I can! So far there has been a lot of conflict with this Koiphen circle in a lot of threads? Seems they're a little more rude and unrespectful in commenting or responding to others questions. We don't need to compete with each other as far as organizations, east or west. We ain't the Crips and the Bloods! We put fish in a tank, then compare and appreciate them. Along with the owners NO MATTER WHAT THE SIZE CLASS. I guess my take on the whole thing, is think before you say something to avoid conflict. Peace!

Bro, I will tell you later about the KP stuff and I will go indepth with it too. So let's stay focused on the threads.

[junglegeorge12]

I have not seen Joe around, but have no reason to suspect him of anything bad. I did some chekcing and it looks like I was wrong, newt did not intend to imply he was joe, I misunderstood a post. This thread is about a certain type of showing at shows. I do not see anything in it that is a pot shot at anyone individual, it is just and issue to discuss. I would like Joe to feel welcome to post here and not feel like he is getting hammered by folks who do not even know him. As for identity, if I got on a chat forum here and got accused of things I had no part with, I would probably take a similar tact. I do think his arrrival and posts probably just came out at a bad time for all that has been oging on. I hope we can all just continue peacefully and welcome Joe to become part of the forum. Lots of folks have accused him of being someone else, but Brian sees all of our IPs, and has not banned anyone or stated that he thought joe was another poster. We all know certain IP equipment can be used to make anyone look like anyone. So I hope the accusations can stop and we can just stay on the topic now. Welcome to the forum Joe.

Also my apologies to newt, I misread your post and thought you were just having some fun.

[tommyL]

I too, am puzzled by the hostility towards Joe.
His questions are harmless in my opinion.

Anyway, I think there is nothing wrong with showing bonsai nissai or whatever in small classes.
Selling them under the guise of Tosai is another matter though, and I believe this is quite common.

[koiczar]

I have seen this happen alot. Especially with newer hobbyists or folks who just don't know any better. The problem/fault usually doesn't lie with the dealer. It rests on the shoulders of the buyer(s). They see koi at a certain size and automatically ASS/U/ME that they are tosai. If they would ask the dealer, if he's up front, he'll explain that they are bonsai 2 year olds.

[keokoi]

Quote: Originally Posted by koiczar I have seen this happen alot. Especially with newer hobbyists or folks who just don't know any better. The problem/fault usually doesn't lie with the dealer. It rests on the shoulders of the buyer(s). They see koi at a certain size and automatically ASS/U/ME that they are tosai. If they would ask the dealer, if he's up front, he'll explain that they are bonsai 2 year olds.

I think a good flag is when buying a smaller koi in the non-tosai season. Off season if you will. This is not always 100% but will at least put a question in your mind..

Me I like Bonsai koi. It seems to be a big thing in Japan and very competitive in those sizes. Maybe even a good teaching tool to pick a smaller good koi. I don't have any bonsai koi I can't afford them...

Joe

[junglegeorge12]

Quote: Originally Posted by tommyL I too, am puzzled by the hostility towards Joe. His questions are harmless in my opinion. Anyway, I think there is nothing wrong with showing bonsai nissai or whatever in small classes. Selling them under the guise of Tosai is another matter though, and I believe this is quite common.

I have never encountered a dealer doing that. It could happen at some breeders though, simply due to not always being able to track each koi perfectly. That is, if they have mixed age ponds.

[Ryan S.]

I don't see a problem fish are benched by size. In Charlotte this year we had an opposite situation in size 4 Asagi/Shusui. Two tosai were competing against 3 year olds in size 4. I also think stunted fish have a greater advantage in a AKCA judged show than a ZNA judged show, so that should play into the exhibitor's choice of what fish to bring.