Algie, UV Lights, and filteration.

[mekoi]

Quote: Originally Posted by jacovors Hi Judy, By adding a UV light you're pond will develop blanket weed 100% guaranteed.

No offence but I added UV Clarifier (not sterilizer) in my pond almost 6 months ago and I have no probs with string algea, in fact no string at all I think its still comes down to proper filtration

The person that Judy was referring to did not have preoper filtration and airation in the pond. You should see the pic, koi were all gathering around the waterfall and gasping for air

rgds,
Jon

[jacovors]

When the floating algae dies the nutrients will be used up by the algae on the walls in the pond and they will in turn grow long and strong.

I have seen this many times, when a new pond clears by itself a balance is reached between the algae , the nutrients and the filtration system, if you mess with this balance nature takes over to balance everything again.

[killroy]

Hi guys! First and foremost, Thanks judy!! Never thought you will come out of your way and do research abt my problem. I never actually imagined som1 will take me seriously. Yes guys! Im the one Judy was talking about. Finally I had time to register at koibito.

I received alot of helpfull comments about my pond at the other forum. People were giving me advices,giving me words of wisdom,encouragement, and even got new friends.

about my problem, hmmmmmm.....Im so sure already, my problem is I overstocked it and I dont have a good filtration system. But hear me out guys...been posting and telling this to other people about my experience in koi keeping. Some say its pure luck, some say its impossible...but I guess you have to take my word for it.

Around 4 years ago, I had a cement precast pond (around 50-60 gallons). I put 10 small kois in it(4-5 inches) and installed an airpump and thats it..no filter or whatsoever. I did try to introduce waterplants,lilies etc, but soon fopund out..playful kois kept on destroying them so took the plants out. Fed my kois 3 times a day...and eventually, they grew and kept them alive,healthy and I guess happy. With just constant water changes (40% once a week) and thats it. No filtration or what so ever. Water was green to murky. I think there were some instances were my water was clear...those were the times when I changed water to upto 90%. And jat this down, pure chlorinated water from the garden hose. But after 2 days, water is back to green and murky. OOps i almost forgot, i put methalyn blue once a month. So again, my kois grew...from 5 inches to 10 inches...some at 12 inches. In the span of 4 years, i think the growth rate is slow but what the heck atleast theyer alive and kicking. I know nothing was bothering them since I always scoop them out one by one if they have any diseases.

So imagine.......what kept them alive? luck?miracle or what? at 50 gal...10 kois...thats overstocked! By the way, um...been actually keeping my kois 3 months every year only coz Im always out of the country so my dad keeps my kois for me. Believe me, If i did worse keeping my kois, my dad wouldnt do any better so its impossible for him to do magic when i was away. Knew my kois inside out so im so sure, they have not been replaced. I had a spy in our house so i know whats really happening.

So this year, I decided to upgrade my pond....still a newbie...but what the heck. Built the 150 gallon pond judy was talking about. I installed a bio filter (skippys bio) connected to a submersible pump...and another smaller submersible for my water falls. o make the story short, kois imeddietly got ulcers when i installed my UV and when the water was clear already. wrote a longer reply but had a blackout here in the house so I had to write again. Too tired to explain everything. But if i did something wrong in my new pond,pls refer to my old pond...what kept my kois alive then?

So sad and depressed. My kois have been a part of me and when I was out of the country, I missed my kois more than my family. True, it shouldnt be the case but thats just the way it is for me.

I cant move on until I find out what really happend. Its like theres a big question mark on top of my head and I cant move on. Right now, my pond is dead...no water or whatsoever. I dont know what to do with it. Ive graduated from aquarium fish hobby and even the marine fish hobby, this is the fisrt time for me to loose fish that fast...

Dont knwo what to do with my pond, maybe just leave it that way at the moment.

jay

[MikeM]

I suspect that in your tiny pond the ever-present algae served as your filter system, consuming the excess nutrient and waste. The water changes were just what was needed to keep it going. When you added the koi, they were so small they were able to get through the break-in period of "new pond syndrome" when the necessary bacterial colonies, etc. get established. I also expect that your dad did not feed too much, which helped get them to survive in quite unsuitable conditions. When you set up your new small pond, the fish were larger. The new system had to establish a new bio-community. You experienced new pond syndrome and the koi suffered.

[killroy]

hi mike m!
hmmmmmm abt what you said that when i added tiny kois and they eventually got passed the break in period and in a way adjusted very well,...i guess you have a point there. Very logical....About my dad not feeding them too much, i doubt that. He works at home and I obseve him whenever he feeds the kois and i should say, my dad always treat them to an all you can eat buffet.

Abt my new pond syndrome and my kois being bigger, alas! you again have a point there!

Heres a post of one member in another forum abt my experience abt the UV thing....and i quote him..

"The death of the green water (the phytoplantonic algae) as a result of being bombarded with the UV lights would have most likely increased the ammonia levels as the algae decomposed in the water.

The objective of the biological filter (when mature) is to detoxify waste matter through the use of bacteria that consumes ammonia and nitrites. With a sufficiently sized biofilter it would be able to process the waste created by the decomposition of the phytoplanktonic algae.

So, although the water cleared up (as a result of killing the phyotplanktonic algae), the death of the algae caused a rise in ammonia, which an insufficiently sized (and immature) biofilter) could not have combated against.

In a high density pond, green water has no place. Althoughit the algae may output oxygen during the day, in a highly stocked pond, it would produce carbon dioxide, with sufficient quantities disastrous to the pond. "

He has a point to. So is it safe to advice future newbies like me not to install a UV first if one has a immature biofilter/filter or insufficient filtering system?
I have never encountered this type of advice...but it seems logical and in a way can be one of the guidlines in staring a new pond. Ofcourse, the bottom line is never overstock your pond.

HMMMMMm......what ever happend to my old 50 gal pond, on how my kois survived such conditions...I guess it defied every science in koi keeping.

jay
BTW, thanks mike for ur inputs

[koifishgirl]

Hi killroy,

No need to thank me, I think you will find that the people on this board and others that love the koi keeping hobby will go out of their way to help. Its in our blood and if I cant help someone with a problem after all the help I myself have recieved then what am I doing on any board.
Build yourself a good sized pond and stock at low levels with a good filteration system to handle the size pond you want and watch your pets grow.

By the way you just signed into one of the best forums with a bunch of great people on board. I have found that anything I need to know you can find out here on this board, they have it all here. To me this is the home of the Pro's and information gathered here is outstanding compared to most board.

Merry Christmas, it not long now
Judy

[killroy]

Hi judy! I guess youre right...I plan to build a new one, but this time...slowly but surely. So even if it take sme years to build or research the things i need to know, i guess its gonna be worth it...have to save up money too heheheheh.

Youre right! this forum is great. Ive been lookin at some posts (not as many as the other one) but the posts here are more precise/exact to the point. And i hardly see any advices thats way of the mark. No offense to the other forum but i guess the other forum has a share of pros too but i think its a stepping stone for begginers like me. But for the mean time, i'll spend more time in there since alot of people there I can relate more with my problems etc in my pond.

Happy holidays judy!!!!!!!!!
killroy/jay/opsul

[Rich L]

I believe slightly green water is a good thing, but I always have lots of air.

If you start the UV before the water is Pea soup, you won't have to deal with a major kill off. It takes two or three years for a well designed pond to work as a complete system but it will handle the green water and string algae as well without your doing anything other than normal maintanence.

In the beginniing you will have to get used to your koi dying. Once you gain experience that will be a rare occurence. It's funny how our ponds work better when we learn how to stop doing the things that kill them.

[MikeM]

I fully agree, Rich. Of course, I prefer crystal clear water for viewing. With proper filtration, maintenance and water changes, it will occur without UV. There will be disturbances to the balance achieved, whether due to seasonal effects, unusual rainfall or other external factors. When these occur, the unicellular algae will reproduce, consume harmful nutrient and in the process provide a cushion than protects the fish. This does not mean that an established pond should ever become pea soup green! A slight green tint will hardly be noticeable in a shallow pond. In a 6' deep pond, a mild cloudiness will be seen, but fish at the bottom should be observable at all times. When these periods of mild murk occur, the koikeeper should be on the alert to identify a cause and to be sure it is only a temporary adjustment. But the algae itself is not the issue. It is a helpmate and a signal.

DickB has commented that UV should not be used 365 days per year because it will mask the condition of the pond. I concur and would add the further view that it eliminates a natural safeguard. I have to admit to using UV on my new pond more than I think I should. On my old pond I stopped using UV altogether. I think the optimal approach is to use it when any murkiness truly impedes viewing fish at depth, to prevent an overpopulation of algae. But, whenever it is needed to use UV, the koikeeper should appreciate that the overall system is not functioning as it should. UV is not a cure, it is a tool.

[Rich L]

A while back I had a pond with pea green soup and thought it was OK. You know the rest.