Momotaro Charity Auction Sanke

[MikeM]

After a few initial comments we got off track in evaluating this one. The auction pic is not as good as Henry's, so I've borrowed it. Henry says the Beni is fantastic, that it "glows". I'm interested in knowing how the Sumi will likely develop and the quality of the Shiro. I'm never sure if I can trust photos. Can someone familiar with Sumi development in Momotaro Sanke share what might be expected to happen in her future? Maybe Henry can give his in-person review of her Shiro?

[junglegeorge12]

the photo isnt clickable.

I still cannot believe the price those Isa showas went for. Totally unfair to Carl.

This one is a gem too.

[MikeM]

Thanks, Jungle. I was rushing. I've substituted another version of the pic. It should enlarge when clicked.

[MikeM]

....and about the prices on the Isa Showas, well, this time around Carl has minimums and reserves. I don't think he could stay in business very long selling at that level the first group went for. The ones now posted are on his regular site for significant prices. If these ladies were on Kodama's site, they'd be valued at twice or more Carl's retail price ...a couple of thousand each.

[junglegeorge12]

Someone threw out a 500 figure, which was way off in my view, but lacking the evidence I needed to prove otherwise and never having seen them in person, did not say anything. Some folks got some good christmas sales I guess. Those were multi thousand dollar koi imho.

I hope this momotaro can go for a real price that benefits the khv research, instead of a hobbiest getting a low dollar freebie.

[MikeM]

CarolynS has pointed out the similarity of this Sanke to the Taiwan GC. There is great similarity. Perhaps a younger sister, but more likely a close cousin. Examining the Taiwan GC and comparing, perhaps the Shiro truly is as nice as the photo indicates? I'll assume it is for the moment. The Sumi on this Sanke, however, is more scattered at this point and clearly immature. Looking back at the K-B articles on Momotaro, I cannot find a clear explanation of Sumi development in the Momo line that lets me draw any conclusions as to how the Sumi will develop. As JR has mentioned in another thread, the large Sanke such as this are coming from the Matsunosuke bloodline, with other genetics being crossed in. Is it reasonable to think it highly likely that the Sumi on this Sanke will behave like Matsunosuke bloodline Sumi? Can any one tell from examining the photo?

[MikeM]

I'm bringing this thread back up in the hope that someone who has experience (even a little?) with Momotaro Sanke might take a stab at my Sumi development question.

[RayJordan]

Hi Mike,

I don't know the answer to your question. From what I saw in person the body conformation and the quality of all three colors are excellent. The beni was especially high quality and seemed to me to be coming along about right for it's age..

Sumi development is always a question on Sankes. If the sumi on this sanke was somewhat more organized it would likely command a price at least ten times greater or even more. For that matter it likely would have not been sold as Nisai.

If I were not going to Japan to buy koi next month I would be bidding on this for sure.

[MikeM]

I do not doubt the quality of the Sumi, Ray. She has the look of one that could well be awesome in a couple of years. The reason for the question, as you say, is because Sumi in Sanke seems to take different routes from line to line; but I do not know enough to understand what I see, especially in a photo. Sometimes Sumi will seem to be finishing early, but then expands ... what were small spots become bold patches. Other times the Sumi will rise and fall, seeming never to become fully fixed, but at the same time showing great shine and deep blue under the skin. Still others stay as they are by the time they are nisai, with the Sumi expanding only enough to maintain proportion. How many more variations?...I don't know. From pics of Momotaro Sanke in Japanese shows, I'd guess they are in the "rise and fall" group, but that is just a guess. And even if I guessed right about them, I do not know if the trait is uniform across the spectrum of tosai produced or how to tell in a younger fish if the trait is present. ...Despite her appearance, this is a young koi. And, whatever the type of Sumi behavior, it seems to me she will only get better.

It seems no matter how much is learned about koi, I am always realizing how little I really know.

[mulberryjen]

Quote: Originally Posted by MikeM I'm bringing this thread back up in the hope that someone who has experience (even a little?) with Momotaro Sanke might take a stab at my Sumi development question.

You said "even a little".....have a Momo Sanke purchased from Carl as tosai May 2005. Keirin's website shot of her posted pre-show at approx. 15.75", when purchased she was closer to 17" and had several areas of sumi that had risen since the photo. Since being "home," a few more good sized patches of sumi have risen and grown very black and deep, but also a few unfortunate small patches (approx. 3/8" diameter) on shoulder rose up with blemishes that look like marker bleed trailing them, for lack of a better explanation. My hope is that the thin sumi "shadow trails" will disappear. My fish is younger than the auction fish, but sumi quality looked similar when my water was warmer, now black looks thick, for the most part.

Cannot comment too much on rising and falling, however, because fish is so young. Will attempt to get my lazy butt out to photo her while off work this week just for discussion's sake.