Pick your BGC...

[PapaBear]

Quote: Originally Posted by James P Little koi that look complete! Notice how the pattern, which is THE focal point of all baby GCs -- flows---- from head to tail. It is balanced and the human eye flows right down the koi's body. These are balanced and finished patterns-- perfect for the fish's size and body. No need to 'grow into the pattern'. The pattern does not appear heavy or weighing the koi down.

Thats what my take was on them. Babies with a mature looking pattern and finish (assuming the body is good first). The three past champs you posted are beautiful examples of exactly that.
That is also why I gave two placements. One for todays BGC and one for Tategoi. I see 54 as having the best finish with a body comparable to 47, but..... 47 has a slight edge bodywise, a better head shape (54 is a bit pointy), and a pattern it should grow into nicely. I think if we were able to have a Nisai competition between these same three 47 would win hands down.

[James P]

Morning Regenmeneer,

From the objective point of view, there are show fish, tategoi and tateshita.

From the hobbyist point of view there are:

1) show fish

2) tategoi - unfinished fish with potential

3) pond fish - also finished and unfinished

4) collector fish - both high quality and low quality

I think that a large percentage of the people that post on these boards are really 'collectors'. They like what they like and they are unburdened by the limitations of show standards. If it looks good to them- they like it.

Another large group is of the opinion that all unfinished fish are tategoi. And as I've said many times- all tategoi are unfinished but not all unfinished fish are tategoi!

I hate being the Grinch when the group falls for a small koi and suggest that it will be a winner in koi shows through out its life. This is a false view of what koi are. Each koi has a time line for finishing and high/peak beauty. We CAN generalize and say that males finish early and that females come into their own at 55 cm , for instance. And there are always exceptions but this simply proves the rules.

In young fish lean towards pattern, strong color and luster. In large koi lean towards elements of quality. This will bring in best conformation, best depth of color( skin characteristics) and refined or artistic pattern- in that order.

For gambling, buy a tategoi. In my opinion, these fish are not tategoi. They are beautiful, young show fish. The third fish has the longest run potential based on pattern.

[koifishgirl]

We went from aquitors BGC to JR'S BGC.
If your looking at the only three small koi entered into a single show and a BGC has to be picked then I would say 47, then JR comes in with three better well then you gotta pic from those there babys and if I was a judge I would find it hard to pic because all are great. BUt I would say that baby 47 would still be my choice now and in the future because I would look at what the little koi is going to do down the road and I think 47 will out do all of them even the stunning white and hi on the three koi that JR have posted. The hi may fade on these three koi when they get older as it is just to strong. The way I think the koi that has to grow into his color will be the best in the end But what do I know Im only a hobbiest


Judy

[James P]

Judy, you are absolutely right, I should not have taken over this thread. My apologies to Aquatori. Happy New Year all, JR

[Regenmeneer]

Sorry Judy, my bad as well. We took this into another direction. Just trying to keep learning.

Mike and JR, thanx for your reaction.
Regenmeneer

[koifishgirl]

No JR. It was fine to jump in with those three little guys, gives us something to compare the other little guys to and to learn from, and what you should look for when you are wanting to take a baby koi to a show that may win BGC. Im only saying that I would still pic # 47 even with your little guys if I was a judge but I am not. I dont think there is a problem here so stay with us OK.


Judy

[KoiCop]

Quote: Originally Posted by James P Judy, you are absolutely right, I should not have taken over this thread. My apologies to Aquatori. Happy New Year all, JR

really, there's no need to apologize. IMHO you didn't take this thread over, you tried to take it deeper -- to a universal lesson underlying this particular game of three card monte.

I for one appreciate both the games and the lessons.

[koiczar]

JR

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the fish you posted from the All Japan Show aren't necesarily "babies"(Tosai) are they?!

As I've mentioned before about show competitions, it's all about finding your niche. A lot of Japanese don't heve the money or space for large ponds so they buy very high quality bonsai nisai from breeders and then have someone get them prepped for a show just like larger fish are. That's why the colors are so thick and brilliant (because they ARE NOT TOSAI)!! That being said, MJ, I agree with you, JR and everyone else who selected #47. That fish is the best overall of the 3 TODAY!! It's not about the future and what they MIGHT look like, it's what they look like NOW!!
Anyway, that's MHO.

[PapaBear]

I'm with KFG and KoiCop. The thread wasn't hijacked. It just went into deeper water for which I am grateful. I can't speak for Aquatori, but isn't that where a thread like this should ideally go? Besides, instead of picking nits on 4 baby beauty we got 7! What a bargain