growing huge kois in a flash??????

[mrbradleybradley]

Hi Killroy and welcome. We have been beginners at one time or another. You might feel that the forum is for "pros" and that you might be able to sneak in from time to time. Remember that the "pros" are still learning something new. The best thing I like about someone like yourself asking questions is that it reminds me that I need to stick with the basics before venturing off into what might be called "High End/pro" koi keeping.

Keep posting, as it will keep the rest of us thinking about those basics.

Bradley

2006 Koi Forum Awards
www.koi.allday.at

[adreamer2]

Welcome Killroy... Good to have you here... I'm fairly new myself... But, have learned alot....


When you mentioned "ionization".... I thought you were speaking of "ozonated" water.....

I am looking to get into that this year.... I'm probably going to buy a unit within the next two weeks and see how it effects the water for my koi pond....


Adreamer2

[killroy]

Kudos to you bradley,adreamer2 and to the rest!

Right now, my pond system (bought a couple of fish yesterday) is very very very basic. I guess its a system that really needs some improvements. Im relying right now very much on water changes (by 30-40% every week) My bio filter is not that good...and thats all i have. I admit, it was made without carefull planning. Sine i dont have any means of checking the water quality or a proper filter system, my only "saving grace" is just controlling the urge of over feeding my kois. Im so happy water is clear without my UV. I unplugged it since it caused me some problems. I dont wanna blame my UV for my kois death but I still believe it made a small contribution to it. It wiped out all the algea in my pond not thinking that algea is keeping the water in check especially that my filters are not that good. Green water is good, but the dark and murky ones are not right???????

Its a learning lesson for me.
will post some pics of my pond this week. Nothing to comment about...just wanna share.

happy new year to all!!!!!!!!!
jay

[B.Scott]

Jay, Ya got a long way to go but you will get there. Without wanting to have you feel I am puttin you down, I don't think it was wise to get new fish. Why? Well first off it's winter. Putting a fish in the best of ponds is a great ordeal for any koi but if your pond is having trouble and it's unheated then you are lible to be in big trouble. At lower temperatures (less than 15*C) a koi has an extremely compromized immune system This is NOT the time to put in under stress. You say you have no way to test the water"? Wouldn't you have been better off putting that cash towards some test kits and improvements on your pond? If you are losing fish what is the point in putting more in before the trouble is fixed?
As for your UV. Yes you can turn it off in the winter but partially blaming it for the loss of your fish is a bit misguided. If you let your water go green then you get more trouble than you solve. Green water most likely means large pH swings as the algae produce O2 during the day and the CO2 during the nite. Again a big stressor for koi especially small ones. Seriously, the best way to go is to get the info, make the best pond you can. Get all the gear you need like test kits, a miroscope, some basic meds, a good net, a bowl to examine them in. Get your filter up and running. Have the filter cycled to some extent before the fish go in. Build a q-tank. You should wait till the tepmperature is up and NOW you can think about buying some koi to start out with. Sadly most people do not do it this way. It will save you alot of grief in the long run Jay

B.Scott

[killroy]

Hi Scott!

thanks for all your inputs, but I forgot to say in any of my posts that I live in the philippines, very hot here. But still, I think I made a "booboo" again, I should not bought some new fish until I make my filter system better.
Thanks anyways, But anyhows....its new knowledge for me. Always right it on my Koi notebook. who knows, i'll spent the 2nd half of my life in a different country....

PS...Ive been looking at some posts...havent seen any pics of anyones pond here?(or im not looking harder) no "members pond" forum here? hehehehehhehe

TC
jay

[mekoi]

Hi Jay,


If you can get some blue 200L drum, its a good start as a filter. That's what I made before and used for 3 to 4yrs. I got nothing against pl who don't use UV but I doubt it if it actually contributed to the death of your koi, it could be something else like amonnia or nitrite.

rgds,
Jon

[B.Scott]

LOL,

I saw Saint Andrew Fields under your avatar and thought you must like in the UK! My mistake, Sorry
But just the same as you admit, it is better to get your pond in order and then buy fish than the other way around. Still a decent begiiners pond can be had if you know what to use and how to install it. If you are afraid you ight be moving at some point you can still considder a liner pond and (if you are handy) make a reasonalble DIY filter that does 95% of what the best ones do.
My pond while only about 10 m³ was built initially for about $2000 including the (non-DIY) filter. Given that was a while back and I would do some things different if I were starting again. With a bit of plywood, some liner, a bottom drain, a good pump and some barrels you could easily make a 4' deep pond with vertical sides that is filtered by a static K1 prefilter and fluid K1 bio-filtration.

To give you an idea I refer you to the static K1 conversion of my existing filter together with a system I built for my Q tank. The second system could easily be made with barrels instead of PVC pipe.


http://www.koiquest.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=748

Let me know what you think.

B.Scott

[James P]

I think keeping koi in tropical countries is a real challenge. The exact opposite problem from the one our Canadian and UK friends have! Each of these zones has benefits and drawbacks. In your country, the fish grow fast I'm sure. I think, if it is like Taiwan, they get fat and have health issues. This grow style is great for young koi and young adults but it becomes a 'monster' of sorts as the progression continues. And localized stock seems to do much better after a generation or two- at least in Taiwan. I have also seen some unusual health problems come out of some of the warm countries. Must have to do with local viruses and bacteria that live all year round in these native waters?

If I lived in the tropical zones, I would use trickle towers extensively. As a way to release heat and gases- both build and get trapped in hot water. I would also be very careful with diet and tend to feed less when koi gained adult size.

[PapaBear]

I think your point is pretty good, but we need a little firsthand feedback on this one from successful Koikichi's in the tropics, and I know these three raise some very nice ones .

Quote: Originally Posted by James P I think keeping koi in tropical countries is a real challenge. The exact opposite problem from the one our Canadian and UK friends have! Each of these zones has benefits and drawbacks. In your country, the fish grow fast I'm sure. I think, if it is like Taiwan, they get fat and have health issues. This grow style is great for young koi and young adults but it becomes a 'monster' of sorts as the progression continues. And localized stock seems to do much better after a generation or two- at least in Taiwan. I have also seen some unusual health problems come out of some of the warm countries. Must have to do with local viruses and bacteria that live all year round in these native waters? If I lived in the tropical zones, I would use trickle towers extensively. As a way to release heat and gases- both build and get trapped in hot water. I would also be very careful with diet and tend to feed less when koi gained adult size.

[junglegeorge12]

JR, your point about the water temps and bacteria is not complete in it's idea. The reason is, here, we have cool tradewinds blowing in the winter time. Placing the pond in the path of those breezes will cool them as well, just like having a chiller. So we can actually control water temps better and have longer growing seasons and fasting winters whenever we want or see the need. A shower and/or waterfall will cool the water dramatically, especially isnce the hudnity is low this time of year so eveporative cooling is increased along with the winds. We have to be careful not to overdo it actually, and cause temp fluctuations that are too severe.

I can get my pond temp down to about 55-60 or even less if I want, and with a large swamp cooler I can drop the temps down into the low 50s or high 40s. So the bacteria strains and fat can go if we want them to. What I do is wait until they are about 3 and put them into a little deeper winter with a one or two month fast to get the fat off. Part of being able to do that depends on location. Down by the beach, it is warmer and harder to do. Water source plays a big role in that, which is why I use inland soft water wells and mountain water.

The mountain well and stream water is so cold here you cannot swim in it. The ocean water keeps the land too warm. Get a few miles from the beach, and it is a whole new ballgame. Tropical forests and mountains have such incredible resources in them, and varied conditions, it is the best place in the world to raise or breed koi imho. I can have a perpetual summer or a perpetual mild winter if I want. Under the canopy of the rainforest, if you have a cold spring or well, you can have a US fall and winter condition all year. You can get whatever you want, and the springs and wells are so unpolluted here, I cannot think of a better breeding place. Bacterias are a concern near the beach, and in the US, here we are unpolluted.