Why Sub-standard "Japanese" koi cost more....

[luke frisbee]

(now before you read further understand that I am talking about the substandard koi that are somehow sold for inflated prices...and why that occurs)
Buying the Sizzle and not the Steak

In the art world people pay high dollar for the work of someone that has cultivated a high opinion within others.....and koi are art.
I see it in an Art medium I am quite comfortable in understanding...pottery. A trinket made by an established potter sells for 10 times its worth....sometimes hundreds of times its worth...as far as it being anything close to being an object of art... but the name is being bought...it is of less concern how the object looks and more who made the object.

[Brutuscz]

People want a "name" such as Dainichi or sakai...also...shipping is HIGH!!!!

[koiczar]

This is simply part of the hobby-especially in America! As people get involved with any sport or hobby, americans are stuck on "name brand" items to "keep up with the Jones's". On the thread about Israeli or other "domestic" lines, posts have been made about whatever the market will bear and what people are willing to pay or think the item is worth. It's what makes the world go 'round and keeps breeders and dealers in business. Don't think for a moment that the supply of chuppa doesn't help keep the price of higher quality fish lower either. When dealers buy fish from the breeders in Japan, the more they buy, the cheaper the price for fish becomes. They'll usually purchase a lot of chuppa and include 2-3 high quality fish in the group to get a balance of cost. Whether this gets passed on to the hobbyist (end-user) or not is where the rub comes in. That's why IMHO it's still cheaper to go to Japan and get your own fish!!

[adreamer2]

Supply and demand.... and the language of "Mark Up"....

That's why they go there.... So that they can find that bargain to entertain those who want it... then they mark it up to get a profit off of what they got...

What bothers me is these domestic koi that are nothing but "pond quality".... They try to get a big dollar out of koi that are less than mediocre.....

Adreamer2

[Birdman]

As many of you know, we race pigeons and sell breeding stock all over the world. American's don't really care about the quality of a bird. What they want is the name or the pidigree. I can get twice as much money from a so so bird with a great pedigree bred from Belgian parents as I can from a better quality bird from proven breeding parents that has no pedigree. Just dosn't make sense. I assume American koi buyers are probably the same. If it's from Japan it has to be good, right?

[luke frisbee]

yes Birdman, we agree...Americans don't understand the hobby...So they buy a "name"

[Steve Nguyen]

It seems pretty straight forward but I could be wrong so what's there not to understand about the hobby? to me, the hobby is about collecting koi and keep them for personal enjoyment. having said that, in term of buying fish, I think it's a matter of personal preferences and individual budget. There are quite a few japanese imported koi shops in the Bay Area but none that I know of carry domestic koi. I wouldn't hesitate considering buy domestic koi if they are appealing to me but since I have not seen domestic koi in person, I can't say for sure if I would buy it or not. I don't buy koi online. To be fair, not all japanese fish are pretty looking either. what's a point of buying an ugly look fish regardless of breeder!

Steve

Quote: Originally Posted by luke frisbee yes Birdman, we agree...Americans don't understand the hobby...So they buy a "name"

[PapaBear]

All hobbiests are not the same. For some the hobby extends no further than their own backyard and for them any Koi they find attractive is fine . Nothing wrong with that. Get the most attractive fish you can reasonably afford and smile all day long.
For others Competition grade Koi are the only ones they are interested in either because they enjoy the competition or because they are in love with the Japanes art form of Koi .
And then there are the suckers who will pay big money for crappy fish just because they are from Japan . They wouldn't know a great Koi from a common goldfish , but they think an expensive import makes them important.

Quote: Originally Posted by Steve Nguyen It seems pretty straight forward but I could be wrong so what's there not to understand about the hobby? to me, the hobby is about collecting koi and keep them for personal enjoyment. having said that, in term of buying fish, I think it's a matter of personal preferences and individual budget. There are quite a few japanese imported koi shops in the Bay Area but none that I know of carry domestic koi. I wouldn't hesitate considering buy domestic koi if they are appealing to me but since I have not seen domestic koi in person, I can't say for sure if I would buy it or not. I don't buy koi online. To be fair, not all japanese fish are pretty looking either. what's a point of buying an ugly look fish regardless of breeder! Steve

[Nancy M.]

Which Hobby group do you fall into?
All hobbiests are not the same. For some the hobby extends no further than their own backyard and for them any Koi they find attractive is fine . Nothing wrong with that. Get the most attractive fish you can reasonably afford and smile all day long.
For others Competition grade Koi are the only ones they are interested in either because they enjoy the competition or because they are in love with the Japanes art form of Koi .
And then there are the suckers who will pay big money for crappy fish just because they are from Japan . They wouldn't know a great Koi from a common goldfish , but they think an expensive import makes them important.

I think I fall into group #2, we love to compete, and only own show quality fish. We do not buy koi just because a certain breeders name is attached to it. We buy 1st off what we like and think that we can grow, and finish properly. And we always try to get the best deal possible. Big price tags do not make a GC. Anyone that is willing to spend big money on a koi, and if you do not have the knowledge and a good eye.. Could wind up with a crappy fish, that is on it's way down or one that just has no future.
This hobby has many hobbiest that are happy wth just regular koi that they find beauty in. And it also has the high end hobbiest. The hobby needs both, we all start somewhere.. It is a good thing for all.

[luke frisbee]

I love looking at one of my kois and then realizing that it has been carrying my eye for awhile and then come to the realization that the reason it is carrying my eye is because it fits the "traditional show" koi parameters....and then I'll catch myself doing the same thing with one that don't...and I gotta figure out why that one does when it don't. Usually cuz it's healthy and got character