Flow thru watercourse with lined ponds without Filtration

[Rowly]

Quote: Originally Posted by maryland_ponder You also may want to consider a settling pond at the begining of your water input. This way you may not have to worry so much about muck at the bottom of your ponds. What will you do when it rains & the lake becomes filled with sediments? Will you shut down the pump until the water clears or do you have an alternate form of recirculation you use? As for rocks I theres no big deal placing them in the streams that connect the various ponds just dont impede the waters movement too much.

Yes, the top and first pond will be a 10' x 10' overflow pond for this purpose as well as allowing the 5000 gph to flow out more naturally into a waterfall io the largest lined koi pond below. The lake is sand and gravel and the sides grasses or landscaped with garden beds, thus the water does not stir up much with sediment, so the pump will run 24/7 for some 8-9 months and shut down for the cold season. No plans for alternative water to full the ponds just let nature run its course in the muti-million gallon lake. Regards

Rowly

[Rowly]

Quote: Originally Posted by PapaBear Koi with a lot of red color (hi, beni) prefer lower ph and softer water, which is hard to come by in N. America. Your ph is very good and the hardness is manageable at 27gpg. Their overall health should be good but the luster of their skin may be less than perfect due to the hardness. That being said, your water conditions are much better than most people I know who manage to raise some very attractive Koi. My Koi are "pond pets" rather than extremely expensive "show koi", but I still strive to provide them with a setting that is healthy and injury free. I think you will find that rocks in a pond wind up adding nothing as they are too deep to add much aesthetically and the ones that are shallow enough to see get mossy with carpet algae anyway. The real aesthetic and water quality benefits are truly seen in the hardscape around your ponds and in the waterfalls and streambed currents (mini-rapids ) you create as you sculpt your personal paradise . With the pond bottom drains you have planned any accumulation of mulm in the streams should be miniscule, especially with 5000gph cascading in a turbulent flow.

Larry, spoken like a pro.....I have read the passion of many raising and showing their koi but for us at this point, "pond pets" are our goal as well, enjoying their friendship, growth and characteristics while we feed and watch them daily relieving the stresses of the day......I think our goals are similar but my knowledge is just starting but thanks to people like you!!!! I will create an environment that will be healthy and fun for these koi pets....I guess trial and error will produce the types of koi that will survive and flourish with the water characteristics present......I know the largemouth, smallmouth bass and forage fish are expanding and growing rapidly with good relative weight to size in the gravel pit lake......the only difference between the two goals are...I'm trying to reduce visibility a little in the lake and making the water more fertile (zooplankton etc) but at the same time I need somewhat clear water for the lined ornamental ponds in the watercourse. Any idea on the amount of clarity desired in the ponds....if 5-6' deep ...have that amount of visiblity??????

Rowly

[Rowly]

Quote: Originally Posted by MikeM Given the flow of water you propose, I'd guess that rocks on the edges of the stream and a few large ones in the stream to create an artistic appearance and gurgling sounds could work. But, you definitely do not want submerged stones in any part of the system for health reasons. They will harbor "bad things". Besides, over the course of a year or two, algae will cover everything submerged. The stream can be a beautiful feature with the right plantings alongside. You won't miss the rock under water. My main concern with your idea is with the potential for disease affecting the game fish in the lake being communicated to your pet koi and vice versa; and any spawning will result in koi fry going into the lake. This could cause an ecosystem problem for the lake. I'd recommend that you keep only males. Less health concerns, less expense. BTW, what is the temperature of the lake in summer?

Good points Mike:

Diseases are a concern but something I'm going to live with for my "pet koi" and lake fish.....the lake is closed, no streams in or out......just ground water lake within a clay lining over many miles in my geographic area. The pit operators would dig into the soil until they hit clay, then stop....the result is sand and gravel removed and replaced with water.....the lake is mostly shallow 6' or less but has 4-5 acres of 12-14' of depth for overwintering. The pit is completed and rehab has started last fall. This is why I'm starting the watercourse this spring. The summer time temperature of the lake depending on the BTU's is in the low to mid 80's.... for July and August....is this a good water temp for koi????? Thx

Rowly

[Rowly]

Quote: Originally Posted by junglegeorge12 Mike is right on with the ecosystem concerns, koi burrough into the mud and eat certain plant life in the wild that can cause serious repurcussions. They have even been blamed for rerouting rivers and eroding their borders. The rocks are basically not desirable for the same reasons as those above posted. The other added concern is that during spawning, male koi press the female koi up against anything they can to push the eggs out of her abdomen so they can enseminate them. The female at this point has released a hormone into the water (similar to scent) that drives the males nuts. The resulting 'sex' is very violent and can injure or kill a female koi if rocks are present. The other major concern is not merely aesthetic damage from sharp edges, but from a bacterial perspective things can accumulate and grow under rock then take long periods of time to break down, and will emit large amounts of nitrate and nitrite for long periods of time. Nitrate for koi is like poison for you. Not desirable. It can kill them. Under and around rocks also becomes a poop trap and a breeding ground for harmful bacteria that can cause all types of sicknesses, sores, and health problems. You will probably want to invest in a large UV light to deal with any incoming sicknesses from the lake, but to be honest, I would isolate the system and build a filter for the ponds. Use the lake for source water and a slow trickle of fresh water. Unless you have control of the biological and sickness situations in the lake. If you are determined to use the lake, invest in a large commercial filter that filters out cysts, reduces hardness, and is low micron with a washable cartridge. Otherwise you may have potentially disastrous health problems for the koi, and water clarity problems. Hope that helps you. Let us know as things go along, and there are alot of threads here on filtration topics and hardness and ph that will teach you lots. Including how crazy some of us are.... You ph is good for koi, the reds will do well. The hardness issues can be dealt with with a filter. Overall i think your idea is great and will look awesome when done. i would suspect you will quickly become a koi fanatic when you start to see some really nice ones swimming around in your water. They are great pets, and stress relievers that some doctors even say help reduce risk for high blood pressure and heart disease. The only place I would put rocks in the stream are places where you want a cascading action or waterfall to oxygenate the water. Oxygenation is always good for koi health and water. Lining the edges is nice also.

Wow....great detailed feedback.........I will use your knowledge wisely. How would I add a large UV light to help control desease/sickness from the lake? I'm going to build a top overflow pond approx. 10' x 10' to release the 5000 gph more naturally......would the UV light be hooked up just before the water enters this top overflow pond from the 2" or 3" pond pump piping?????

Rowly

PS...what would you suggest I use below water level in each of the lined ponds to hide and protect the 45 mil liner from harmful UV rays from the sun, if not hidden by the small round stones??????? Thx

[Rowly]

Quote: Originally Posted by koifishgirl Hi Rowly, Can you give us a site picture? This will help us determine some thing about you pond site and what is growing around the area like tree's that can cause you a problem if close to the water. This is something that you need to take into consideration.

Kiofishgirl...will do...I need to scan a few pics for this forum......how would I post these pics.......once scanned and saved in my laptop computer?????

Rowly

[maryland_ponder]

When you click the reply button scroll down to "manage attachments" & click that button. There you will be able to attach & upload your pics. Any errors you get will be sizing issues so you may need to re-size the pics to be permitted to upload them.

[junglegeorge12]

On the liner, use a UV resistant liner, and doubling it up will protect the bottom layer. The other thing alot of folks do is line the bottom with bentonite clay, that way if the pond springs a small leak, it will seal up. Bentonite clay expands when it make contacts with water, making it a sealer. In the US you can get truckoads of it for pretty cheap. Not sure about where you are. Google it and see.

The UV light would go just before the pipe dumps the water into the upper pond. One thing you have to remember is that wild fish have built up immunities and live with some serious parasite and other problems as a norm. They also die in large quantities you don't know about or see on the surface, especially when small. You will want to protect your pet fish from those things passionately, or your wife and kids will be constantly scooping out their 'favorite dead friend' for a tearful burial service instead of enjoying them swimming around and looking beautiful.

You are starting out like most passionate hobbiests do. When your skills get better you will probably start to purchase more and more expensive and beautiful koi to enjoy. We all started out saying the same things you did, most of the time cuz the wife knew the prices of high end koi and would kill us if we did that at first, after a few years the wives fall more in love with it than their hubbies in most cases, and wind pushing for nicer koi themselves, so relax and enjoy the ride! It is an awesome enhancement to family life and a worthwhile investment just for that.

I think you and your family are going to get many years of pleasure out of this. How old are your kids? It is a great learning tool for kids. My son is four and he knows how to build hurricane proof concrete walls with rhebar that can hold water, feed a pet, and take care of water at just four. He is learning how to count, how to build, science, water, animals, all from this hobby. It is an awesome teaching tool. Later he is going to learn about reproduction and health care through it.

[Rowly]

I see it thanks....



Rowly

[Rowly]

Hey, I attached a couple of themes I want to use within my watercourse...the first attachment is a Japanese garden theme and the second is a water fountain I want to install on the natural lake some 200' from shore with night lights, etc.....when I scan some pics of the lake and location of watercourse I will post...thanks for your guidance.........and what are your thoughts or concerns...

Rowly

[Rowly]

Quote: Originally Posted by junglegeorge12 On the liner, use a UV resistant liner, and doubling it up will protect the bottom layer. The other thing alot of folks do is line the bottom with bentonite clay, that way if the pond springs a small leak, it will seal up. Bentonite clay expands when it make contacts with water, making it a sealer. In the US you can get truckoads of it for pretty cheap. Not sure about where you are. Google it and see. The UV light would go just before the pipe dumps the water into the upper pond. One thing you have to remember is that wild fish have built up immunities and live with some serious parasite and other problems as a norm. They also die in large quantities you don't know about or see on the surface, especially when small. You will want to protect your pet fish from those things passionately, or your wife and kids will be constantly scooping out their 'favorite dead friend' for a tearful burial service instead of enjoying them swimming around and looking beautiful. You are starting out like most passionate hobbiests do. When your skills get better you will probably start to purchase more and more expensive and beautiful koi to enjoy. We all started out saying the same things you did, most of the time cuz the wife knew the prices of high end koi and would kill us if we did that at first, after a few years the wives fall more in love with it than their hubbies in most cases, and wind pushing for nicer koi themselves, so relax and enjoy the ride! It is an awesome enhancement to family life and a worthwhile investment just for that. I think you and your family are going to get many years of pleasure out of this. How old are your kids? It is a great learning tool for kids. My son is four and he knows how to build hurricane proof concrete walls with rhebar that can hold water, feed a pet, and take care of water at just four. He is learning how to count, how to build, science, water, animals, all from this hobby. It is an awesome teaching tool. Later he is going to learn about reproduction and health care through it.

JungleGeorge:

Thx for your thoughts and comments.......our kids are 17 and 15 both boys and enjoy the lake for swimming and fishing. Any idea on the size of UV light I would require to kill all parasites/deseases and sickness the koi could encounter in this environment??????


Rowly