Wintertime injury - opinions needed.

[mulberryjen]

Well, had an unpleasant surprise this morning when checking on the gang - my ginrin chagoi has sustained some unfortunate injuries which have totally ruined a lovely fish. The pond is netted and can't really figure out what happened....only theory is that he somehow swam into the skimmer box and thrashed about. We had a great deal of rain and pond level was up, and skimmer door was knocked into the box....I dunno. Everyone else looks A-OK.

His head is laced with dark scratches, probably missing AT LEAST 30-40 scales scattered across the length of his body but mainly in shoulder area. Large bruised area , approx. 4 1/2 in. long on right flank. No broken fins or skin. He is still active and behaving "normally", but he looks like total she-ite, like a bear had been playing with him or something.

Question: water temp. currently at 49 degrees F., ammonia 0, ph 7.8. ( it's been unnaturally warm this January - temps are up from Dec.) Should I leave him be in the pond to avoid stressing him, or will the cold temps. retard his immunity too much? If I bring him indoors, at what rate should I warm the water and what should my target temp be? Will warming the water create an environment that kicks in the "bad guys" before the immune system of the koi can react? Have had times where I have "over-helped" some koi to their detriment, but others times have played "wait-and-seen" too long as well..........please share advice!

[dick benbow]

hi Jen,
When it comes to koi it always pays to be pro-active. As you have already acknowledged the cold temps are not your ally in having an activated immune system or allowing the damaged parts to repair themselves.
My suggestion would be to move the fish indoors.I hope you have a running q tank because water quality and stable conditions will be a strong asset for recovery. Putting together something on the fly will not provide the stable inviroinment the koi needs to progress. You want to have your inside temps within 4 degrees of the outside. Koi move easier from cold to warm
than the other way around.
I would want to have one pound of salt per 100 gallons in the tank to introduce the koi. each day i would raise the temperature by 1 or 2 degrees.
Once the koi gets active around 55 F you'll be able to see what you'll need to deal with ...infection etc. and respond accordingly. Fish begin to heal nicely by 68 F. If the fish looks and acts good as the temperature gets in the upper 50's you'll have to make a decision on feeding. Small amounts of cooked barley or soaked wheat germ pellets (sparingly) will help kick the digestive system back in.
let us know how it goes....and in the way of encouragement you'll be surprised how fast a koi like that can come back with some TLC

[Surfhead]

how close have you inspected him? Are you certain the damage did not break the skin? I agree, bring him inside and keep a close eye on him. Cold temps are good and bad...immunities are down, but so are parasites. As you warm him up you need to be careful...it's like a false spring and the parasites will wake up before his immunities come back...especially in this weakened state. really really good water is a must. I agree, don't do this if you don't have a operational QT running already.

Ned

[junglegeorge12]

I would be concerned about infection, bacteria, or parasites kicking in before it has had time to heal or build up immunity.You might ask JR if he is around anywhere.

[mulberryjen]

Dick B., Surfhead, Junglegeorge - thank you very much for your input. The temperature issue had me a bit flummoxed. Do NOT currently have Q-tank set up - mistakenly assumed it wouldn't be necessary during "off" season.... obviously wrong on that one.

To match water temp. within 4 degrees it will still be pretty cold, so I would have to rely on mechanical filtration and water changes (as opposed to biological). Do you think if I pump pond water directly into my temp. tank and add salt as a starter the conditions would be appropriate? Then can gradually change out water while raising temp. and deal with secondary issues as any symptoms appear. How does that sound?

Mike and I had considered building an indoor tank for the crew to overwinter them, but never managed to get the scrap-heap we call a basement cleaned up to make room......starting to feel pretty stupid about it now!

[jnorth]

Quote: Originally Posted by mulberryjen To match water temp. within 4 degrees it will still be pretty cold, so I would have to rely on mechanical filtration and water changes (as opposed to biological). Do you think if I pump pond water directly into my temp. tank and add salt as a starter the conditions would be appropriate? Then can gradually change out water while raising temp. and deal with secondary issues as any symptoms appear. How does that sound?

Thats a great idea. Koi get stressed when moving to new water so pumping in water from the pond is a good idea. You would need to move the koi immediately before the water warms up. This tank will be inside right? Does it look like the attached pic by any chance?

[mulberryjen]

Quote: Originally Posted by jnorth Thats a great idea. Koi get stressed when moving to new water so pumping in water from the pond is a good idea. You would need to move the koi immediately before the water warms up. This tank will be inside right? Does it look like the attached pic by any chance?

Jim, are you hiding out in my garage - looks a whole lot like it! Just add a few more scratches on the head. So what is the story behind your fish?

Yes, by the way, tank would be in basement.

[Regenmeneer]

Be sure to keep the water quality optimal and use a tank of sufficient size. If not, the injuries might just get worse due to bad water and added stress.

You might considder placing a second koi to keep it company to reduce the stress. Also something in the water like aquamats might help to lessen stress because the koi has some place to hide and feel safe.

Regenmeneer

[jnorth]

Pretty sure it was nothing more then carp pox. I brought it in and applied pp paste to the affected areas. Because of that the koi is scarred for life. It cleared up less then month after I moved it inside. Below is a pic taken about two months after treatment. You can clearly see the affected areas. In all honesty though don't take my advice on this. I'm better at killing them then curing them.

[junglegeorge12]

I used Melaflix a while back in a similar situation, it went away a week.