Need Your Help!....

[adreamer2]

Got a new koi.... It is in my quarantine tank along with 2 other koi (both 11" inches that have been there for over a month) and have had it for a little over a week.....

At the time I received it, there was a 19" inch sanke..... But, he died within 5 hours after arrival..... He is to be replaced with a doitsu sanke.....

However, the one which survived, is now acting lethargic.....

It barely eats, its floating its head..... Not near the waterfall or the bubbler, and is alienating itself....

It's white body is tinged with red (it is a kohaku).... it has red streaks throughout its body....... A sign of stress, I know.....

I have tried everything but salt at this point..... ((I changed out 20% of the water, added fresh water, and more aeration to the tank and it has not helped him)) The other guys are happy.... But, this one??????... I don't know!....

What do you suggest?......


Adreamer2

[karipeters]

The first thing I'd do is test the water (seems obvious, but sometimes you find something unexpected), then I would do a scraping and examine it with a microscope. If you do not have the means to do it, there might be someone affilliated with the AKCA Health program that could help you.

[adreamer2]

Have two microscopes....

It's not the water.... I would suspect the water if I had not changed it.... The water is clean....

Adreamer2

[karipeters]

I don't know if I understood you. Did you test the ammonina, nitrite & pH levels?

[marco]

If the 2 others koï are in the same tank from more then a month, its probably not a question of water quality.(IMHO)
No idea of what it is, but the idea to have a look on microscope is a good one.
Do you suspect the origin of the death of your first koï ?

[koiczar]

Did both the first sanke and this doitsu sanke come from the same dealer? Were they both in the same tank at the dealers? If so, you may want to check the other fish in that tank at the dealers and see what's going on there. Ask the dealer if he's had any problems with any of the other fish from the tank where you bought these from. If he's reliable and honest he"ll tell you right up front.You say you have a scope, so I would suspect gill problems/infection from what you have explained. That's the first place I would start my scrapings, from under the chin passed the gill plate. If possible, try to get just inside the gill plate and scrape the lamellae (gill tissue). IMHO, I would suspect flukes or trichodena, followed by a bacterial gill infection. Could it be that the dealer is heating his ponds and you're not?

[adreamer2]

Well, I lost it (my kohaku).... It died overnight....

I, however, did a gill scrape...

and it turns out this creature had two kinds of parasites....

One was perfectly round with a clear nucleus.... ((It may have dried and died perfectly round....))

Upon an internet search.... (and I may be wrong here), but it looks like chilodinella.....

The other, I cannot figure out what it is.... it appears oval on both ends and moves pretty quickly through the dead tissue.....

Now, I'm worried about my other two koi..... they appear to be fine (for now)... But, I'm now wondering what to treat with....

I ordered some Debride medicated food and ointment.....

got some PP, but I'm weary of using it because I've never used it before... Plus, I'm hearing some harsh stuff about it....

But, I know I'd better treat the other two....


Adreamer2

[adreamer2]

Oh... yes... They both came from the same dealer....

Does anyone do a skin scrape upon receiving their koi or do you all just keep it in a quarantine tank, with treatment until you are comfortable in thinking it to be fine?....

SYMPTOMS:

I've also got to say that the eyes of this kohaku seemed weirded out.... When I pulled it out of the tank, it was as if the eyes were larger than the socket, but not bugging out...

His head seemed "bony".....

He, (yes it was a male), was not eating for the past few days... I mean, he would eat a couple of pellets, but would spit out anything more than that....

He stopped swimming, he began "hanging" around...

his skin had bloody veins from its shoulders to its caudal peduncle....

And two days ago, the top of his head began what appeared to be a darkened spot....

What do you think?......


Adreamer2

[adreamer2]

Now I know what it was....

Ichthybodo, chilodinella and/or Trichodina.....

http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/video/fishmovies.htm

Trichodina:

http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/trichodina.htm

Ichthybodo:

http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/costia.htm

Chilodinella:

http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/chilodonella.htm

[marco]

Hi Adreamer, sorry for the bad new of your kohaku.

I never used PP, so I have no experience to share about this product, others will tell you how to use it.
First think I will do it's to make an microscopic examination of the two others koï that are in the quarantene tank. If you don't find any or just a few parasite, I will do a salt treatment.
If you find a lot of them, I would probably do a formalin + malachite green even if it can be toxic at long term.
After one week I will do an other microscopic examination just to see if the treatment works.

But the first thing I will try to do is to give them back to your local koï dealer (if they are coming from the same guy then the two others who died) and ask my money back for the 4 koïs.

That's an hidden defect before the sale and even if the seller didn' know it when he sold the koï, he is obliged to give the money back..., but only a few people know it.

Good luck and let you know.
Marco