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Old 03-04-2006   #11 (permalink)
Daihonmei
 
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Dinh's Kohak. Bloodline Torazo, Size 18", Sex - Male. The Kohak has a pleasing pattern, deep red beni so it has to be male. Has enough sashi to finish later and cleanup. Conformation is very good on the fish, spindle and thick. With the right care you can whiten up the nose and make the shiroji clean. The beni looks too hard now but with a year to condition this fish you can give it a more youthful appearance. Will this fish get better or is it finished? The fish can only get better, at a show now it might do okay, but in the future I expect this Kohak to have a bright show future even with it being male. Males can win high awards at shows, I have done it with my male Kohak "RP"....
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Old 03-04-2006   #12 (permalink)
Oyagoi
 
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Maybe I can help clear the air. This is NOT a jumbo tosai. The Maruyama jumbo tosai are being housed in the same 6000gal tank but this is a 18" nisai. I know cuz I was there when Russ picked it out. No matter, Tony you're right. These fish seem to be getting better every time I see them. I have two of them and they both have bodies like females. The beni is still a ways off but the shiroji is cleaning up nicely. You can't beat the price either for these fish - way below normal market!! Glad to hear you're going up this weekend - you won't be disappointed.
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Old 03-04-2006   #13 (permalink)
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I don't recall seeing orange Torazo's. Those must have been from a cheap batch or bad water conditions? I like some of the male Torazo's because of the deep color and almost female looking body. This is a bad pic of my Torazo, about 22" male and the fish is just getting better in color and conformation. Nice kohaku Dinh, I agree with Antonio that it will get better.
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Old 03-05-2006   #14 (permalink)
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It certainly is nice and big. Great deep blood red color.
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Old 03-05-2006   #15 (permalink)
Sansai
 
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I'll reply.. and probably get banned.. That is fine..
Here :
I hate BS.. and I am FULL of it..
Brian.. It's OK... sweetie...\
http://www.zkoi.com/info_jumbo.html
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Old 03-05-2006   #16 (permalink)
Oyagoi
 
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Doug's link. Very True..

What in the world is a Jumbo Tosai?
It sounds like some kinda new frozen food, does it not ? Tosai is a Japanese term for “ Koi of the season”.

Over the last few years Momotaro, and others have “ come up' with these new miraculous little fish that, instead of overwintering in cooler waters, with slower growth rates, are pushed in warm, high quality, water with abundant feed. Nothing more to it !

It's supreme marketing to get you to buy a fish... a “miracle fish” that might only cost $100-$200 dollars but the miracle fish, of 12-14-16 inches at nine months is sold to you for SEVERAL times that amount in order for you to think that you, yourself, can “make” a thirty inch Koi in record time!

Folks. It's rubbish! I can, and do produce “Jumbo Koi” from all sorts of different bloodline Tosai that I purchase. I have the water resources and knowledge to do it.

I can take the “lowly” normal 5-7 inch Tosai that regular folks purchase, and BLAST it into a Jumbo quite rapidly often having it surpass the growth of the “Marketed Jumbo” within 18 months, IF I choose to. I can also color up that lowly tosai with color food to make him look like a 5 inch Grand Champion. I do neither.

Jim Reilly, a friend , Koi judge and well known advanced hobby guy/amateur scientist said it best. Many of you have seen his writing as “ JR” or “JPR”
Thanks, Jim.

"Here are some 'hard truths'
1) Koi are the ultimate 'cut flower'. They improve ( tategoi), they peak ( finished) and they decline( past sell date). We, conversing here on this thread know this well. But every year, people spend small fortunes on fish thinking they are living art, like oil paintings, and that they will preserve these looks forever. Usually 'forever' is 1-5 years.
2) Koi that are pushed, grow no larger than if they are 'done well' in a seasonal setting. And there has long been evidence and feedback that these techniques can produce unhealthy koi in the end. Allow me to open the top of the hamper and expose some pieces of dirty laundry. The fish of Hiroshima need to be ' hardened off' in the old days as they were as weak as kittens when shipped abroad. One of the breeders already mentioned struggled with a strange virus for years on and off.

And finally Maeda himself said in an interview on this subject that in the end, mudpond/wintered fish and his hothouse fish will be the same size but outdoor/wintered fish have greater vigor and a look of a 'wilder fish' ( he meant this as a compliment).

There is nothing wrong with giving fish a 'head start' in life. Strong robust fish can be a joy to own. But the 'implied' message to the enthusiastic beginner is that the fish will continue to grow at this pace and that a 'giant' Koi has just been obtained. This is not true. Koi are indeterminate growers within a programmed genetic limitation.
JR "
Well said, Jim.
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Old 03-05-2006   #17 (permalink)
Oyagoi
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Ward
I'll reply.. and probably get banned.. That is fine..
Here :
I hate BS.. and I am FULL of it..
Brian.. It's OK... sweetie...\
http://www.zkoi.com/info_jumbo.html
Doug,

Why ban?

That is a good info for reference..... I now learned a little bit more about koi and "Jumbo Tosai"....

--Dinh
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Old 03-05-2006   #18 (permalink)
Sansai
 
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Well.... I just had me a full fledged stroke !!!!!!!!!
Nancy got her revenge !!!!!!!!
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Old 03-05-2006   #19 (permalink)
Sansai
 
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oh well..........
( kiss emoticon needed )
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Old 03-05-2006   #20 (permalink)
Oyagoi
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Ward
Well.... I just had me a full fledged stroke !!!!!!!!!
Nancy got her revenge !!!!!!!!
Doug
No revenge intended. I have seen many hobbiest purchase Jumbo tosai, thinking they were going to have this enormous koi in a years time. They just need to be educated. And your link is a good source for that, Excellent link Doug..
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