Best aerated media upgrade for 3-chamber vortex

[androal]

I just read the response from the company that produces R-matala. I thought it a VERY good response! Very insightful, and covers a number of issues that many people (I imagine...) would naturally have. Posted here " " for others to have benefit of reading! " I. AERATION:
1) Retrofit the current 'traditional dome' bottom drain cover with a spindrifter 'aerated dome' bottom drain dome cover. This is a good idea if the spindrifter will fit your existing bottom drain.
2) Adding aeration stones to BOTH 2nd and 3rd stage vortex chambers
If you use Kaldness in Chamber 2 you must aerate it. I do not recommend aerating through the Matala because you can strip biofilm. It is better to aerate only the top of the Matala. A few bubbles coming up through the Matala is OK but don't over do it. Also, do not aerate the connection ports since the rising bubbles will cause the water flow to slow down.
II. REPLACE BIOLOGICAL FILTRATION MEDIA IN VORTEX CHAMBERS #2 & #3
1) Kaldeness K3 Media Put in 2nd Chamber OK.
2) R-Matala Chamber #3 OK. Use Blue on the bottom and Gray on top.

QUESTIONS REGARDING R-MATALA MEDIA:

1) CORRECT LOCATION?: Based on the upgrades I am contemplating, which vortex chamber is the R-Matala media ideally suited for? You may use Black R-Matala in Chamber #1 for solids capturing above the vortex area. This works very well at just one 6 inch roll of black, it keeps almost all solids from entering the 2nd chamber. If you choose to use Matala in chamber 2, use the green at bottom and a blue on top. 3rd chamber will use the blue on bottom and gray on top. If you want even finer filtration on top of #3 use a 2" piece of open cell foam for detritus capture. Initially I thought the R-Matala media would be an upgrade to the brushes I currently have in Vortex chamber #2, but when I read about the Kaldeness media, it seems like most people are putting Kalness in the 2nd chamber, the Kaldness is an interesting media which some people like, but it will only function biologically and not remove any solids. In fact it will produce a lot of detritus which will go to chamber 3. This is OK as long as you can capture or settle the detritus in chamber 3. The kaldness is put in chamber 2 because of the detritus production and it is simpler to prevent the floating media from ending up in the pond. and putting japanese matting in chamber #3. This makes me think the R-Matala belongs in Chamber #3. Your thoughts?
You will get better flow distribution and more available surface area with the Matala than you will with the Jap mat. The Jap mat could be used after the Matala due to it's characteristic of attraction for detritus.

2) BEST COMBINATION W/AERATION?: The spirex option 2000 vortex filter is 37" in diameter and 48" deep. It has an 'Up-Flow' design which forces water entering the chamber down to the bottom, so that water rises from the bottom of the chamber to the top, where it is pumped out to the water fall/return.
i. What is the best combination of R-Matala types to use, and in what order should they be placed vertically in the chamber? See above explanation.
ii. How much space should exist between the different layers of R-Matala media? No space. Just put them on top of each other.
iii. What type/how many aeration stones should be used to aerate the R-Matala media and what is the correct placement of the stones to acheive maximum efficiency? Aerate the top of Matala so you are less likely to sheer off the biofilm.
iv.What is the ideal amount of aeration to provide the media in this proposed setup (liters/min)?
Aerating the media si required with the kaldness and I would recommend a 40 liter/min air pump like Hakko 40 for the filtration system aeration. In my opinion the pond itself is a better place to aerate. Disturbing the whole surface of the pond and circulating the pond from top to bottom will aerate better than just the surface of the filter tanks. Your total aeration should be at least an 80lpm air pump for the pond and a 40lpm foir the filter.
O2 is what makes the whole pond tick.

Any insights are greatly appreciated! Thank you for your interest and I hope all works well for you.
Ben Plonski
Matala USA

[bekko]

I sort of agree with androal. Static K is magic (bless you Maurice) and definitely belongs in the first chamber. If price was not an issue, I would put moving Kaldness in both 2 and 3. Aerated K is easier to maintain than the mat.

I make static K baskets with heavy duty 1-inch plastic mesh and stainless 'C' ring staples. Inside that is a basket liner of 1/8-inch plastic mesh. A piece of 2 or 3-inch PVC with slots cut on a chop saw is mounted in the center of the basket and connects to the tank outlet. A washer tub would look much better, but the plastic mesh basket can be made to fit the tank with minimal wasted space between the basket and tank wall.

-steveh opkins

[marco]

Quote: Originally Posted by bekko I sort of agree with androal. Static K is magic (bless you Maurice) and definitely belongs in the first chamber. If price was not an issue, I would put moving Kaldness in both 2 and 3. Aerated K is easier to maintain than the mat.

I agree with you, I overgrade my filter with static K1 in the first chamber and fluid k1 in the second, and from now one year, I didn't clean my mats in the 3 followings chambers because they don't need to be clean...
Really fantastic solution.
Marco

[androal]

Quote: Originally Posted by bekko I make static K baskets with heavy duty 1-inch plastic mesh and stainless 'C' ring staples. Inside that is a basket liner of 1/8-inch plastic mesh. A piece of 2 or 3-inch PVC with slots cut on a chop saw is mounted in the center of the basket and connects to the tank outlet. A washer tub would look much better, but the plastic mesh basket can be made to fit the tank with minimal wasted space between the basket and tank wall. -steveh opkins

Any tips on where I can find the plastic mesh materials to construct a static K basket as you describe above? I found something that looks like what you describe at www.aquaticeco.com , is this mesh similiar to what you used to construct yours?

The tank outlet is located at the top of the vortex in my unit, I assume I will need to run the pipe horizontally into the center of the vortex, then put in a bend so the pipe runs vertically to the bottom of the basket (like the way maurice shows the modification in his pictures)?

Do you position the basket above the intake pipe? I think I will have to do that on mine to allow the really heavy detritus to flush immediately out the bottom of the vortex to waste. Otherwise, the larger leaves and twigs and such (the occasional frog???!!!) that sucks in from the bottom drain will get lodged into the side of the basket!!!

[bekko]

Because of shipping, it is cheaper for us to buy mesh locally. I use something that looks like Aquatic Ecosystems item # TN525 (1.25 inch) for the outer rigid cylinder and TN527 for the liner.

If I understand your situation correctly, you would want to run the horizontal pipe through the side of the basket. This could be done with a bulkhead fitting or something less elaborate.

You do not want to run the vertical pipe to the bottom of the basket because that would create a spot where water can reach the slotted pipe without traveling through very much media. You want the distance from the bottom of the basket to the pipe slots to be the same as the distance from the side of the basket to the pipe slots.

I don't know where your intake is in relation to the top and bottom of the vortex. Is it a tangential inlet, straight through the wall, elbow?? A very shallow basket could be problematic because of the considerations noted in the paragraph above. You might want to consider making the basket narrower to accommodate sticks and frogs. Whatever configuration allows the most K-1 media.

-ste veho

[androal]

The spirex vortex is 48" deep with a 4" tangental intake at the bottom of the vortex - right where the cone starts... the base of the vortex is cone shaped (design is intended to 'funnel' the detritus into the drainage pipe located at the bottom center)

There is a nice diagram of this filter on page 16 of the laguna koi catalog at:

http://www.lagunakoi.com/html/LKPver11.pdf

So… if I understand the design you are describing, I would simply connect the 4" out-take port at the very top of the vortex to a single horizontal pipe (with a cap on the end of it, and slits cut across the length of it).

Since the vortex is approx. 40” in diameter, I can probably use around a 38” pipe to span the diameter of the vortex chamber. What you are saying is, the depth of the basket should not exceed the distance from the side of the basket to the slits in this 4" pipe. Since the pipe is located at center of vortex, the distance from the side of the basket to the pipe slits equals the radius of the basket (approximately 19"). So the depth of the basket should not exceed about 17" (given the pipe's diameter of 4").


As an aside, this design DOES provide ample space between the tangential intake located approx. 40” down near the bottom of the vortex base. So the only design concern would be if the resulting dimensions of the basket end up being too shallow to accomodate sizeable enough K media.

RESULTING DIMENSIONS: 38” diameter basket (with the 4" pipe entering the very top of the basket and spanning the entire diameter of the vortex) The basket would be approx. 17" deep (constructed so the distance from the bottom of the basket to the pipe slits is no more than the radius of the basket, per above...) resulting in... just under 12 cubic feet of volume for the K1 to fill... and the question becomes... is this adequate volume?

Correct?

[dubtaco]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tony Prew Now if you really want to catch the fines earlier then you might want to consider a static caldness drum in the first vortex that all the water has to flow thru to exit the chamber hint: an old washing machine drum is perfect, only miner modifications needed Good Luck with your upgrade Tony

I'm ditching my micron screen in favor of this option.....I'm making my drum using a 5 gal. bucket, how much k-1 or bioflo-9 will I need?

Something a bit like this http://www.koicymru.co.uk/statick1.htm

Here is another source for wire and plastic mesh material http://www.mcmaster.com/ , under plumbing and filtering, then click woven wire cloth.

[androal]

The main difference between this design and what I will need to figure out is that the 'out take' to the biological filter in my spirex vortex is located at the top of the chamber.

I guess this means the 'slotted pipe' will have to run horizontally accross the top of my chamber, instead of vertically down the center of the vortex, as is shown in the pictures.

[dcny]

Quote: Originally Posted by androal Any tips on where I can find the plastic mesh materials to construct a static K basket as you describe above? I found something that looks like what you describe at www.aquaticeco.com , is this mesh similiar to what you used to construct yours?

Instead of a plastic mesh I used black plastic hardware cloth that I got from my local HD. It came in a 3'x15' roll. More than enough for what I needed. I just doubled it up to make sure the holes weren't too big for the k1.

[mitten]

Androal-

Are your tanks rubber coupled together? Have you tried fitting pipe to the inside of the tank's molded outlet? I know this doesn't work on Lim's vortexes, but I haven't hacked up any Spirexes. As a matter of fact I just saw my first Spirex in person last weekend. (Thank you Larry and Pete.)

You may need to / want to cap off the original outlet and drill through the tank wall for a bulkhead and piping for the outlet. Lim has a molded in flat spot for this but if you don't have a flat spot I wouldn't worry about it. I'm also the kind of guy who would use a uniseal or modified male and female threaded couplings for this purpose. The vertical pipe drawing from the inside of the K1 basket is an essential in my interpretation of this technique. Now apply the formulas of ratio that St Eve Hopkins posted.

For Double taco - 5g isn't enough, try for 30 or 40 or 50g which allows you to use 2 or 3 cu. ft. of K1.

Mickey the windowman