Best aerated media upgrade for 3-chamber vortex

[androal]

CURRENT SYSTEM BACKGROUND: I have 3x spirex option 2000 vortex filters servicing my 4000 gallon koi pond.

They are arranged as follows:

1) Primary Vortex Chamber: fed from a bottom drain.

2) 2nd Vortex Chamber: fed from Primary vortex, contains a series of brushes located at the top of the filter (serves as additional mechanical filtration w/some biological filtration ability).

3) 3rd Vortex Chamber: Fed from 2nd Vortex, water flows over spring flow ribbon media that serves as the primary biological filtration system for the pond.

Water is pumped from the top of the 3rd Vortex chamber to the top of a plunge waterfall and also to a mid-level return about half way down (2ft) the 4ft deep pond.

There currently is NO supplemental aeration in the pond. The waterfall plunges 4ft into the pond - directly infront of the return - serving to aerate the pond.

I am gathering information on the ideal media types/aeration combinations to upgrade the current system.

I am contemplating the following upgrades, and am curious to learn of anyone’s experiences/opinions about these contemplated choices:

I. AERATION:

1) Retrofit the current 'traditional dome' bottom drain cover with a spindrifter 'aerated dome' bottom drain dome cover
2) Add aeration stones to BOTH 2nd and 3rd stage vortex chambers

II. REPLACE BIOLOGICAL FILTRATION MEDIA IN VORTEX CHAMBERS #2 & #3

1) Kaldeness K3 Media
2) R-Matala

SPECIFIC QUESTIONS REGARDING THE CONTEMPLATED UPGRADES:

1) CORRECT LOCATION?: Based on the (above) upgrades, which vortex chamber is the R-Matala media ideally suited for? Initially I thought the R-Matala media would be an upgrade to the brushes I currently have in Vortex chamber #2, but when I read the forums about how people have retro-fitted the Kaldeness media, it seems like most people are putting Kaldness in the 2nd chamber, and putting japanese matting in chamber #3. This makes me think the R-Matala belongs in Chamber #3?

2) BEST COMBINATION W/AERATION?: The spirex option 2000 vortex filter is 37" in diameter and 48" deep. It has an 'Up-Flow' design which forces water entering the chamber down to the bottom, so that water rises from the bottom of the chamber to the top, where it is pumped out to the water fall/return. i. What is the best combination of R-Matala types to use, and in what order should they be placed vertically in the chamber? ii. How much space should exist between the different layers of R-Matala media? iii. What type/how many aeration stones should be used to aerate the R-Matala media and what is the correct placement of the stones to acheive maximum efficiency? iv.What is the ideal amount of aeration to provide the media in this proposed setup (liters/min)?

3) OTHER OPTIONS/OPINIONS: Does anyone have any experience w/this media type (or others... japanese matting?) used in vortex chambers like I have? I am contemplating the R-Matala media because it sounds like any easy upgrade (comes in correct shape/size right out of the box - no need to cut it). Are there other, more preferable ways of upgrading this system that I am not contemplating?

Any insights are greatly appreciated!

[dick benbow]

there's any number of things you could do according to your pocket book and what kind of a bio-load ( fish numbers) you have to deal with. I think your basic plan will be a definite improvement. When it comes to the miltilda get the kind with the biggest opening...

[mitten]

Androal

I just typed for about twenty minutes and then lost it all. Happens a lot to me. Others?

So, short version.

If you are only pumping 2000gph like the design limit then it just won't matter a lot what order. If you are pumping more then you could throw the springflow (3,4, 5 cubes of it) into #1 to help mechanically.

Try R-Matala green and blue, course and medium, my green never clogs at all and I wish for blue. Don't fill up the whole depth, just use one or two or maybe three. Work up.

Look for Maurice's site where with a little diggin you can find pics of how to convert a chamber for K1 as well as how to make an air ring. I skip air stones and I keep air in the filters, not the pond.

You could run from 3 - 7 and maybe 10 cu. ft. K1 in your chamber. Work up. I use a Sweetwater 44, the same as a Medo ??.

You in California? Your profile contains ZERO. But it really costs to ship spirexes so I'm guessing California.

Mickey the windowman

[Birdman]

[quote=mitten]Androal

I just typed for about twenty minutes and then lost it all. Happens a lot to me. Others?

Yes, that has happened to me several times on this forum with long replys.

[Birdman]

If you go with some kind of fluid bed filter might I suggest Boi Flo-9, from Rauschert, 865-694-2089. Order specific gravity of .95. it's $25 a cubic foot vice about $70 a foot for Kaldnes. I just got 16 cubic feet from them for my new filters.

[Tony Prew]

Sounds like you have the right idea
K-1 in # 2
#3 you might want to consider green matala (the flexible type) in a coil
it is available in many different diameters and I think six inches deep
this works fairly well to catch the fines
Now if you really want to catch the fines earlier then you might want to consider a static caldness drum in the first vortex that all the water has to flow thru to exit the chamber
hint: an old washing machine drum is perfect, only miner modifications needed
Good Luck with your upgrade
Tony

[joe bauer]

is there a specific problem you are trying to address, or are you upgrading just to upgrade?

[androal]

no specific problem - just makes intuitive sense to me that the fish would appreciate supplemental aeration.

A little bit of keeping up with the Jones's I guess... I read the forums and see what other people are doing and then think that there may be improvements I could be making with my own pond.

This sort of stuff has a domino effect - I figure, if I'm going to add air to the vortexes I should evaluate if I am using the optimal media. From what I have been reading it sounds like the upgrade I am considering would result in healthier water for the fish - with a side benefit of clearer water maybe? (the water is pretty clear as it is... but it can only get clearer... right?)

[androal]

Originally Posted by mitten

Androal

I just typed for about twenty minutes and then lost it all. Happens a lot to me. Others?

So, short version.

If you are only pumping 2000gph like the design limit then it just won't matter a lot what order. If you are pumping more then you could throw the springflow (3,4, 5 cubes of it) into #1 to help mechanically.

Try R-Matala green and blue, course and medium, my green never clogs at all and I wish for blue. Don't fill up the whole depth, just use one or two or maybe three. Work up.

Look for Maurice's site where with a little diggin you can find pics of how to convert a chamber for K1 as well as how to make an air ring. I skip air stones and I keep air in the filters, not the pond.

You could run from 3 - 7 and maybe 10 cu. ft. K1 in your chamber. Work up. I use a Sweetwater 44, the same as a Medo ??.

You in California? Your profile contains ZERO. But it really costs to ship spirexes so I'm guessing California.

Mickey the windowman

Thx for response! Smoe follow up ???s/comments:

1) I am in NJ. the original owner of our house built the pond 7 years ago. He mentioned the cost of the filters was $$$!!!

2) You mention that I could put the springflow media in the primary vortex chamber. Wouldn't this interfere with the swirling motion of the vortex? If the springflow could actually help to trap particles, would it then be a good idea to aerate it too? My intuition says that aerating the primary chamber would cause the particles to remain suspended in the water longer...?

3) You mention that your green matala never clogs and that you wish for blue matala - why not go with blue and then gray to fine tune it?

4) You mention not to fill up the whole chamber, just to use 1 or 2 or maybe 3 (build up over time as I experiment w/results) the matala material appears to be only 1.5" thick (according to their website). They show several images on the website of alternating layers of the material (green/gray/green/gray....) I have a 48" deep chamber. If I only use 3 layers and they are each only 1.5" thick, how should they be spaced out? Or should they be stacked together - like they appear on the company web-site?

5) What is the best way to aerate the media? Should I use spheres, cylinders, or discs? I assume the stones should be located all the way at the bottom of the chamber?

[androal]

Originally Posted by Birdman

If you go with some kind of fluid bed filter might I suggest Boi Flo-9, from Rauschert, 865-694-2089. Order specific gravity of .95. it's $25 a cubic foot vice about $70 a foot for Kaldnes. I just got 16 cubic feet from them for my new filters.

Thx for the tip! What a savings! Any real difference between the two that you know of. I am always amazed at the basic misperception of most consumers in the world that "you get what you pay for" - in my experiences "it pays to shop around" is generally a more accurate statement.