Building Mud Ponds for Koi

[thefishsempai]

Thank you for your fast reply.

Sempai B.

Originally Posted by Russell Peters

You can find Maurice at www.koi-uk.co.uk.

Russ

[mitten]

Sempai-

Like many things you will end up finding a difference of approach amoung different folks. You will need to pick your path by assembling parts of the techniques of others.

Mud pond for summer growth...
clay lined, provides water retention as well as a rooting medium and benthic interactivity.
good water source, cheap would be nice.
overflow and level controls, as well as somewhere for the excess water to go.
fencing, netting, wiring or a combination, Invest here.
aeration. more is better.

Koi fry will start spring in 1 ft deep water and depth will be increased gradually to about 4 ft.
If you are just keeping or growing fish, then 4 ft unless they are big guys. All big guys? build a trout pond.

The techniques of Thai goldfish producers involve koi pond type conditions- mud, depth, aeration and current, unlike the traditional goldfish grow ponds of China and Japan, concrete, shallow, still, and green. You know that.

Because of our "brisk" climate, perhaps you would want to consider a greenhouse over your mud pond. My ponds are covered and not heated and so my fish think they live in the Kentucky part of Ohio, like one climate zone warmer.

Mickey the windowman

[lildude]

Originally Posted by thefishsempai

Any help will be very much appreciate on building koi mud ponds.

I am building a few outdoor mud ponds so before starting I am look for any kind of tips etc.

Plus any idea are welcome.

Sempai?
hmm

[bekko]

Maurice has nice "gutter connect" greenhouses. His ponds are not lined although I believe he uses some plastic to help control erosion around the edges.

The "hoop" or "tunnel" style greenhouses are much less expensive but there are limits to how wide they can be and you do not get expansive open spaces. In either case, you probably want long narrow ponds so that there are no columns in the water.

There are advantages to lining the whole pond and putting a soil overlay back on top of the liner. There is no seepage for water conservation, there is no erosion of the sides at the water line, the koi cannot root out holes in the sides of the ponds, you have control over the soil characteristics and soil quality, the pond can be completely dried or sterilized for pathogen control and to oxidize organic matter. It is just a much more manageable situation that way.

-steve hop

[dizzyfish]

Mud ponds present unique challenges. I would try and make the ponds uniform in size so one size seine would work for several different ponds. Having a drainage ditch they can all be drained to is a big help. Having a large capacity fresh well is also a near must. Fence around and put strings or netting over the top. There are lots of predators for small koi or goldfish. These can include insects and their larve, as well as things like snakes, frogs, and turtles. Mammals like otters and racoons can take small to larger koi. And of course the predatory birds like heron are force to be dealt with.

Once you have figured how to keep the predators to a minimum be prepared to deal with water quality problems, especially in drought conditions. Methane gas pockets can form very quickly in mud bottom ponds. The rooting activities of larger koi help to release this gas early, but it can build up to very dangerous levels in fry growout ponds. Mat McCann at Nisei Koi Farm told me they have to have someone get in the ponds and walk through them to burst the gas bubbles with their feet. Pumping air in the ponds helps to get the water moving and also helps put oxygen in the water. The more air line drops you have the better.

If you can manage to keep most of the predators at bay and maintain reasonably good water quality, you will still have parasites that find their way into the pond via bird droppings and other hitchhiking methods. While in the ponds the koi handle the parasites pretty well, but be prepared to treat once they are moved into holding tanks. Having high density mud ponds is probably a lot more involved than most people realize. (myself included) After visiting with Mat and Ross I can much better appreciate all the hard work that goes into koi farming. Good luck in your efforts, but be prepared to put in a lot of long hard hours. I attached a couple of pictures the mud ponds at Nisei Koi Farm.
Mitch

[MikeM]

Yep. They only look like a hole in the ground.

[thefishsempai]

Mickey,

Thanks for all the tips.

I plan to building dome over the ponds so that will help with all the wildlife problem.

Sempai B.

Originally Posted by mitten

Sempai-

Like many things you will end up finding a difference of approach amoung different folks. You will need to pick your path by assembling parts of the techniques of others.

Mud pond for summer growth...
clay lined, provides water retention as well as a rooting medium and benthic interactivity.
good water source, cheap would be nice.
overflow and level controls, as well as somewhere for the excess water to go.
fencing, netting, wiring or a combination, Invest here.
aeration. more is better.

Koi fry will start spring in 1 ft deep water and depth will be increased gradually to about 4 ft.
If you are just keeping or growing fish, then 4 ft unless they are big guys. All big guys? build a trout pond.

The techniques of Thai goldfish producers involve koi pond type conditions- mud, depth, aeration and current, unlike the traditional goldfish grow ponds of China and Japan, concrete, shallow, still, and green. You know that.

Because of our "brisk" climate, perhaps you would want to consider a greenhouse over your mud pond. My ponds are covered and not heated and so my fish think they live in the Kentucky part of Ohio, like one climate zone warmer.

Mickey the windowman

[thefishsempai]

Mitch,

All you points are well taken.

I plan to build dome over the ponds, which should take care of all wildlife problem - correct me if I am wrong.

How is the water system work. do I just drain water from the pond and refill with well water or how the water bed works. I am not sure if the pond will just refill or have to dig a well etc.

I do have well on the land already.

Again thanks for the help.

Sempai B.

Originally Posted by dizzyfish

Mud ponds present unique challenges. I would try and make the ponds uniform in size so one size seine would work for several different ponds. Having a drainage ditch they can all be drained to is a big help. Having a large capacity fresh well is also a near must. Fence around and put strings or netting over the top. There are lots of predators for small koi or goldfish. These can include insects and their larve, as well as things like snakes, frogs, and turtles. Mammals like otters and racoons can take small to larger koi. And of course the predatory birds like heron are force to be dealt with.

Once you have figured how to keep the predators to a minimum be prepared to deal with water quality problems, especially in drought conditions. Methane gas pockets can form very quickly in mud bottom ponds. The rooting activities of larger koi help to release this gas early, but it can build up to very dangerous levels in fry growout ponds. Mat McCann at Nisei Koi Farm told me they have to have someone get in the ponds and walk through them to burst the gas bubbles with their feet. Pumping air in the ponds helps to get the water moving and also helps put oxygen in the water. The more air line drops you have the better.

If you can manage to keep most of the predators at bay and maintain reasonably good water quality, you will still have parasites that find their way into the pond via bird droppings and other hitchhiking methods. While in the ponds the koi handle the parasites pretty well, but be prepared to treat once they are moved into holding tanks. Having high density mud ponds is probably a lot more involved than most people realize. (myself included) After visiting with Mat and Ross I can much better appreciate all the hard work that goes into koi farming. Good luck in your efforts, but be prepared to put in a lot of long hard hours. I attached a couple of pictures the mud ponds at Nisei Koi Farm.
Mitch

[thefishsempai]

I had take a look at his site and plan to contact him in the new year.

Thank for your help and good tips.

Sempai B.

Originally Posted by bekko

Maurice has nice "gutter connect" greenhouses. His ponds are not lined although I believe he uses some plastic to help control erosion around the edges.

The "hoop" or "tunnel" style greenhouses are much less expensive but there are limits to how wide they can be and you do not get expansive open spaces. In either case, you probably want long narrow ponds so that there are no columns in the water.

There are advantages to lining the whole pond and putting a soil overlay back on top of the liner. There is no seepage for water conservation, there is no erosion of the sides at the water line, the koi cannot root out holes in the sides of the ponds, you have control over the soil characteristics and soil quality, the pond can be completely dried or sterilized for pathogen control and to oxidize organic matter. It is just a much more manageable situation that way.

-steve hop

[dick benbow]

during your contacts with the likes of mat and maurice be sure and get your info lined up on the importance of availability on live food for the fry. The first month is critical