Need a little help...

[Sangreaal]

Bought a group of 5-7" koi which arrived yesterday after 48 hours in transit (I paid for overnight but was sent 2nd day). Miraculously these koi survived and are in quarantine. Of the 7, one appears to have a red furry spot on its caudal fin, another has a bloody split in its caudal fin and the scales are raised at the end of its tail tube closest to the fin. I have neither salted the quarantine tank nor have I added antibiotics. Water is a good 7.8ph, 0 nitrite, 0 ammonia. Big air stone, biowheel filter, 50 gallons. Everyone was flashing yesterday--I'm thinking that the ammonia content in the bag they shipped in may have caused the flashing (it was waaay off the chart when I tested it). They don't seem to be flashing today.

What should I do for the two that have fin problems? I don't believe these happened during shipping--they look too aged. Should I treat all of the fish with something, or do a wait and see? Should I remove the most healthy and put them in their own clean quarantine or is that a moot point at the moment? I'm never quick to medicate, so any advice would be appreciated as to whether I should and what with...

Thanks,

Marie

[dinh]

seems like you didn't even have any picture of these 7 koi before arrival? Anyway, can you take some picture of these koi that having problem with their fins so we can view in order for them to give you good suggestions.

[B.Scott]

First question... Did you remove the fish from the bag, place them in the tank and dump the transit water or put them water and all into the tank?

When shipping fish in a bag a couple of interesting things happen. As the fish metabolize within the bag they excrete carbon dioxide and ammonia via their gills. As the the ammonia levels raise the carbon dioxide drives down the pH. The ammonia then converts to it's ionic (and non toxic) form, ammonium. Thus a shipping bag can contain huge levels of ionic ammonia that would normally kill a fish in seconds without actually doing any harm BUT... if you take that water and pour it into a basin of water with a higher pH part/all of the ammonium converts back to toxic ammonia and will burn/kill the fish in short order.
NEVER place bag water into the QT.
All you can do now is change the water out and possibly add some Amquel. You might consider treating the fish with some sabbactisun or proflavine hemisulfate. Or they may get better by themselves in good water. hard to tell.

I would contact the shipper and hold them responsible for any damage. take pictures and collect evidence and shipping receipts as well.

B.Scott

[Russell Peters]

I think it would be best not to buy any more fish from the source you have. We have fish shipped directly from Japan and we clear customs and have them in our tanks in 24 to 30 hrs. 48 hours is ridiculous! When our fish arrive they have no stress and no injury. Your fish got shipped damaged and the source should responsible for them.

[Sangreaal]

Quote: Originally Posted by B.Scott First question... Did you remove the fish from the bag, place them in the tank and dump the transit water or put them water and all into the tank? ....All you can do now is change the water out and possibly add some Amquel. You might consider treating the fish with some sabbactisun or proflavine hemisulfate. Or they may get better by themselves in good water. hard to tell. I would contact the shipper and hold them responsible for any damage. take pictures and collect evidence and shipping receipts as well. B.Scott

Nope, not me. I didn't want that nasty stuff in my nice clean QT. I filled a tub with fresh water and an air stone the day before arrival to let it get to the same temp as the QT, and I floated the bag in that for about 30 minutes before hand-hefting each fish out of said bag and into the tub. I then did a test of the bag water before chucking it--off the charts black ammonia-wise. I let the fish rest in the tub for a while and just observed them. One of the sankes was clamping fins and in utter shock. I was sure he was going to turn turtle but that ugly little sucker is still alive. The chagoi had a red/white furry lump on its tail fin and the butterfly (I didn't order any butterflies and if I had I sure wouldn't have bought such an ugly fish--a$$wipe added it to the shipment with the aforementioned sanke and didn't send my kohaku!). That poor little butterfly is covered with raised patches of scales today (only on tail tube yesterday), and I'm thinking ammonia burn here because he is so much smaller and more delicate than the older regular koi. It does not look at all like ick. I'll try and get some close up pics later so you can see.

The guy will only reimburse me for the kohaku he didn't send. We've been going around about this since yesterday. Needless to say, he'll never sell me another fish after doing the bait and switch on shipping AND substituting fish without my consent or knowledge. I'm just glad they weren't expensive so the loss is not that great....

M

[Sangreaal]

Quote: Originally Posted by Russell Peters I think it would be best not to buy any more fish from the source you have. We have fish shipped directly from Japan and we clear customs and have them in our tanks in 24 to 30 hrs. 48 hours is ridiculous! When our fish arrive they have no stress and no injury. Your fish got shipped damaged and the source should responsible for them.

Yeah, no kidding. Especially since the shipper and I are both in California. I got my Ochibas from Florida and they were here in less than 24 hours, so there was no excuse for this...

[Sangreaal]

Quote: Originally Posted by dinh seems like you didn't even have any picture of these 7 koi before arrival? Anyway, can you take some picture of these koi that having problem with their fins so we can view in order for them to give you good suggestions.

I had pics of the 5 that I bought. They were clear pics and looked pretty good, though the doitsu chagoi looks a bit different from the one I saw in the pic. The add-ons and make up for Mr. Kohaku fish I had not a clue about, but on the bright side of this he did send a nice looking ginrin sanke in the mystery switch.

Anyway, I'll see about getting pics up by this evening....

Thanks Dinh,

Marie

[Sangreaal]

Well here they are, in all their splendor....*rolls eyeballs*



This was as close to the fish as I could focus with my old Mavica. I know it doesn't show near the detail you'd like, but it's the best I could do....

M

[l113892]

Give us the name of the dealer for these fish. It doesn't pay to be a lousy dealer and screw a customer.

[luke frisbee]

sangreaal, find someone that knows koi before you waste your money.....anymore.
Those fish aren't worth whatever shipping was.
I'll say one thing good about the dealer(?) that sold them to you...he gave them a level of care equal to their worth... and his fish represent the man....
Those are culls at Blackwater creek...and first time through culls at that.

STOP BUYING FISH NOW...

And I'd love to know how you bought these fish and the person that sold you them.