Ochiba Shiguri Markings Question

[PapaBear]

Take a look at my before pix (linked in the picture post) and after and tell me if the changes in mine are similar to yours. I'm curious to know if mine is just following suit with your experience.

Quote: Originally Posted by LizardBreath My ochiba have all been doing the color change thing. When I bought my first one last summer I brought him/her home, put him/her in the pond and he/she turned as ugly as a grouper. He/she changed back. He/she is the most beautiful fish. He/she changes little by little back to his/her original coloring. I have four ochiba now. They all look dark and kind of ugly. I just finished water changes and hope they all come back to their former beauty. Right now they are kind of ugly. Mr Munch is still pretty. His dark coloring is outlining the orange on him. He is so purdy. He is a doitsu Ochiba and I think female. Ms. Munch. The fish is a pig. They seem to really like salt content in the water too. LBD

[Sangreaal]

Quote: Originally Posted by PapaBear Sangreal, I've been given a lot of definitions of what makes a Koi Ginrin. The first I heard was at least 20 GR scales. The most recent was 4 rows. In either case I don't think the GR "crown" on your Ochiba would tip the scale. I have a GR similar to your Jumanji only mine has a solid gold face. I've never heard of one going from tea color to grey when stressed as you describe, but then again I'm no expert so there's a lot I've never heard of Brutuscz, I'm going to guess the same as Sangreal. #1 domestic and #2 Sakai.

I hope the dozen or so gin rin scales in Autumn's "crown" don't tip the scales of category, though I doubt seriously that I'd ever take her to a show. It's just a nice feature that I admire in her. Thanks for telling me the different definitions of gin rin. I'm learning something new every time I stop in to visit Koi-Bito's Koi Kichi crowd. *smile*

Here's a pic of Jumanji when he's gone pale--note the patch on top of his head and the patch on the side of his face:

He was so pale faced when I opened the box he was shipped in that I didn't even recognize him as the same fish! Took him two weeks to get his pigment back in those areas. Every time I scooped water from his quarantine tank to do water changes, he'd pale out. Had to start using a hose to suction water so he wouldn't get an adrenaline rush, which is what I suppose causes this. Same thing happened when I caught Autumn and transferred her to the sarassa pond. Jumanji went pale, and even paler when I caught him and took him out to the pond too. Took about a week and then his color came back, and that was when I took the previous pic of him to log how dark his head "normally" is. (whatever normal is for this koi *LOL*)

Any theories on why/how this happens? Perhaps the underlying pattern on his head is what may develop as he ages, whereas the overlying color is more of a facade until he matures further.

I haven't a clue.

Marie----->clueless in Dairyville

[Brutuscz]

Ochiba one is a sakai fingerling at 4 inches. Number two is from blackwater creek in Florida. Of course, in my pond, they both are going to turn black!!!

[PapaBear]

Sangreal,

Just a guess, but some kio fade in certain areas when stressed due to thin coloring in that particular spot. That could be it. Someone else may have a better explanation as my Ochiba experience is pretty thin too .


Brutuscz,
I guess our prognostication skill are a bit lacking . Not the first time I ever guessed wrong though.

[Sangreaal]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brutuscz Ochiba one is a sakai fingerling at 4 inches. Number two is from blackwater creek in Florida. Of course, in my pond, they both are going to turn black!!!

LOL! I guess Larry and I are 0 for 0 on that one....

How long have you had them, and what is your pond like? Too much sun, too much or too little of sumpin' in the water that induces mega-sumi? *G* Inquiring neophyte minds have got to know.

Marie----ever wondering

[Brutuscz]

They are both new and purchased from different dealers. They just finished quarantine and are now in my pond. My pond is a black liner. I truly believe a black liner brings out sumi very quickly. When I brought them indoors for the winter, they were in a pool with a white backround. The sumi got much lighter on most of them. Because of this, I dont believe it is my water quality at all. There is a breeder in Japan named Suzujyu koi farm. I read an interview with him..he stated that he breeds smaller showa that finish very young. He uses a black liner in all his mud ponds. He believes this finishes the sumi very deeply and relatively early. He has won many awards in the smaller sizes...and his showa are awesome!!! I have found his statement about a black liner pond to be true. Unfortunately, a chagoi or ochiba will turn very dark in my pond...can barely see them.

[LizardBreath]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brutuscz They are both new and purchased from different dealers. They just finished quarantine and are now in my pond. My pond is a black liner. I truly believe a black liner brings out sumi very quickly. When I brought them indoors for the winter, they were in a pool with a white backround. The sumi got much lighter on most of them. Because of this, I dont believe it is my water quality at all. There is a breeder in Japan named Suzujyu koi farm. I read an interview with him..he stated that he breeds smaller showa that finish very young. He uses a black liner in all his mud ponds. He believes this finishes the sumi very deeply and relatively early. He has won many awards in the smaller sizes...and his showa are awesome!!! I have found his statement about a black liner pond to be true. Unfortunately, a chagoi or ochiba will turn very dark in my pond...can barely see them.

My new Ochiba was in a pond with a black liner for the last 5 months. He was also in the shade.
My pond is less deep, has a black liner and a lot of sunlight. (four feet)

New Ochiba is getting darker and darker. Ms Munch is still maintaining her color. She turned the color of a grey grouper when I got her home last summer. She is much prettier now. I will try to take pictures tomorrow. I need a better lense.
I think they just change color and get dark for a while to make us wonder.
Beth

[PapaBear]

Looking forward to the pix Beth. Your observations and Brutuscz' are helping to clear things up for me about mine. I hadn't really considered Sumi to be in the picture for an Ochiba but it seems to be there lurking in the gene pool like a quiet chameleon.
Sangreal's Ginrin is much like mine. No sumi issues with it at all only mine has less leaf development at this time. The patterns are emerging slowly from the top down, which is the opposite of how the normal scaled ones developed, from the belly upward.
BTW Brutuscz. Your chagoi and mine seem to be on the same page. The ones I have all blend in well with the carpet algae even though they were more tea colored indoors. They seem to color shift to blend in to the background very quickly.

[Dale Torok]

I've been enjoying the discussion and pictures of ochiba's in this thread. Ochiba is one of my favorite varieties. Probably first after the big three. I have two ochiba's, one gin rin and one not.

Our regular ochiba is sometimes referred to as 'Bandit' because the pattern on the head looks like it has a gray mask around the eyes.

Dale

[PapaBear]

Thanks for looking in and posting the pix. I like the mask on yours

For those who may be interested here is a website that has a ton of different Ochiba types. You'll have to translate the page into English (unless you happen to be fluent in Japanese that is), but once you find your way around there are a lot of interesting pix of the different sub-varieties of Ochiba.
http://members.at.infoseek.co.jp/nisikikoi/index.html