Judging Koi indoors.....

[aquitori]

What factors do judges take into consideration when judging indoors?

[schildkoi]

Are you asking do judges give special consideration based on indoor lighting?

Remember, All Koi would be under the same lighting conditions thus its still a true comparison. Cloudy day verses sunny day for Gin Rin? Judges judge based on the conditions present and cannot (or at least should not) "speculate" on what the appearance would/could be under differing conditions. This could lead to false assumptions on one type of beni verses another based possibly innaccurate assumptions to begin with. Notice the word "assumption" repeats? Judges judge based on what is present "on the day" under the conditions given.

Knowing this and then as a hobbyist, showing appropriate Koi for those conditions can in fact matter. Poor lighting at a venue would lead me personally to show a Koi with sumi such as Sanke and Showa while holding back a Kohaku for a show with natural light.

Using the recent OKC show though as an example, the benis were "washed out" from the light and as devil's advocate against my above statement, a Kohaku still took GC. Why? Because the conformation over road the appearance of the washed out beni (even though in actual sunlight the beni is a thick persimmon.

Remember, a Koi show is "dynamic" and no single factor can be looked at to predict the outcome, including lighting. However, knowing all of the factors can lead a hobbyist to "improve their odds".

Steve

[MikeM]

Steve: Doesn't purplish Hi look redder in fluorescent light while orange-based Hi tends to look thinner?

[dinh]

Steve,

It seems to me that Shiro Utsuri has more advance than other for indoors show. Is that true?

[schildkoi]

All beni will look "lighter" in typical indoor lighting. A good judge however knows the difference between color "intensity" and color "thickness". More intense red does NOT mean better red just like lighter persimmon beni does not mean "thin".

Even though persimmon beni can look more washed out under indoor lighting, Unfinished more intense beni can get a modelled look to it and can even give a false representation of "lumpy" or uneven skin.

Shiros can in fact do better in indoor shows due to some of these other issues with the appearance of beni. But remember, the judges have to work with what they see, not what they may "think" it would be in other circumstances...Its judging for today and not what you specualte tomorrow will bring.

Steve

[RayJordan]

I agree with Steve's comments. When judging a show you judge for what you see right there. In some indoor lighting the beni especially on kohakus can look uneven because the lighting emphasizes the uneven-ness. However you see what you see and have to judge what you see. You cannot assume it would look differently in natural sunlight. If all tanks have the same lightling at least that is fair for everone but sometimes say under a tent the outside tanks will have pretty good natural light shere the inside tank will be in deeper shade. Gin Rin can be difficult to judge properly in shade but as a judge you got what you got.

Show rules and tank location is a part of koi shows and I would rather a koi judge do their best with what they see vs guessing or assuming something they cannot see. I once saw a Shiro Utsuri with some red on it's belly after it flashed. Once I saw the red it had to become part of the judging decision.

One additional thought. I have seen some disasters when koi are moved out of their tanks in tubs outdoors or whatever to make a judging decision. I don't think that is fair to the other fish judged in their tanks or to the owners. Not worth risking harm to a koi to move it out of it's tank into better lighting. IMHO.

[aquitori]

Have you guys considered moving fish outdoors to be judged on bump ups?

[schildkoi]

Move outdoors? Seen it done...seen resulting problems. Show sight was chosen, unfair not to judge all Koi under the same lighting in my book. If the show wants the Koi judged in natural light, the show should really provide natural light....outdoors, venue with skylights, etc.

Remember Tony, we will judge whatever the show wants us to judge in the manner they want us to judge them. If they want Koi compared in natural light, then we really should move all Koi out into the same light to be fair to all parties.

Steve

[ChrisC]

Interesting thread. Our show in Seattle is outdoors, but under a tent, in case it rains (hey, it could happen!)

We deliberately choose a white tent, to not create issues with the color of the fish, but we struggle anyway. One really nice Shiro Bekko looked PINK under the white tent--not pink from stress, but from how the sun was shining through the fabric. I was left wishing we had assigned that owner a tank closer to the edge....

[PapaBear]

I really appreciate the points made by Steve and Ray here. Judging everything under the conditions you are presented with is the only fair approach to take. If the best Koi on Thursday (still at home) suffers from traveling stress and becomes streaked or blotchy from bloodshot stress on Saturday when the judging begins it has to be judged then, not based on how they "think" it would look in an unstressed condition.

The way light is filtered and reflected is one of the factors that can sneak up on the unsuspecting. The white tent filtering light in a way that would "pink" a shiro is a great example. Not only color, but fabric material can filter different parts of the light spectrum to varying degrees. Can you imagine trying to judge in an older venue with sulphur gas bulbs? They give everything a dull yellow hue.

In retrospect, one thing I noticed at the OKC show was that even though there were large doors open on the sides of the venue, all of the show tanks were distributed in the center so the natural & artificial light would be evenly filterd and distributed among them all.