mud pond insurance

[dick benbow]

many of us have used the mud ponds in japan to grow our selections. There is a fee of course and an understanding that the farmer will keep the koi as best as he can. BUT things happen, disease, preditors, earthquakes etc. While not explicit in any agreement sometimes the farmer tries to replace the koi if possible. Sometimes they can't ( the earthquake was a prime example) what would you think if there was a fee charged for an insurance that would protect
against disaster and even if the koi did not turn out to your expectations?

The reason I bring it up is because I know of a breeder in the USA offering this plan. I thought it was quite novel and innovative. recently there has been concern expressed about promoting those who don't advertise here, so i advance this topic with the idea that no mention will be made on this board of the dealer by name.however.......

I'd like to hear your opinions! good? thinking outside the box? (last pot shipment from tokoname in japan for my bonsai did not have extra insurance
and my claim was denied) i learned a good lesson with what brown can do for you!

[keokoi]

Its a Genious Idea.. Marketing at its finest.. remember the black Jack tables. Once the dealer throws down that "Ace" he or she swipes their hand across the table and says Insurance???

I think in a way its a win win situation. Sell insurance and the one time it has to be used the customer is happy and comes back and tells a friend...

The other times it doesn't have to be used then the dealer capitalizes...

For me when I buy koi and leave them in Japan. I kiss my money goodbye and never think about it. If the fish comes out Bonus. If it doesn't I only gambled what I was willing to lose..

To bad on the pot Dick, I just brought back a box of hand made tokoname pots from Japan. I had them box it up and I checked it on as luggage. The airline asked if it was breakable and I said yes. In SFO the hand delivered it to me at the baggage claim..


Joe

[luke frisbee]

great idea...especially as the breeder knows his koi and should have control over his ponds.
hmmm lets see? i think about half the koi I see go back into the ponds come out either the same or worse.....so the "insurance rate" should be about 50% of the purchase price of the koi. tripled the second year.
That is above the "mud pond fee".

[dick benbow]

Luke the price is a lot more generous than the percentages you mentioned.

Joe, hand carried the package over to luggage? are you kidding? very impressive!

[MikeM]

Yes, Dick. It is a marvelous idea. And, since in this case it even covers a tosai turning out to be male, I could not pass it up. It makes a "guaranteed female" without doubling the price.

[Russell Peters]

I nsurance usually only benefits the provider. It is like buying an extended warranty, it costs a lot and odds are you won't need it. If a Japanese breeder offers insurance, but something catastophic happens, and he loses all of his best stock, then what would you get?

[MikeM]

In this instance, the insurance is not just covering injury or the like, but allows you to reject the fish and get a refund if unhappy with the progress over the summer. We'll see if it continues to be so broad in the future. The major point for me is that it amounts to a guarantee that tosai I purchased will be female, or I'll get a refund or replacement. So, unless the guy is better than most in sexing tosai, it's a 50-50 proposition for me, and well worth it.

[keokoi]

Quote: Originally Posted by MikeM In this instance, the insurance is not just covering injury or the like, but allows you to reject the fish and get a refund if unhappy with the progress over the summer. We'll see if it continues to be so broad in the future. The major point for me is that it amounts to a guarantee that tosai I purchased will be female, or I'll get a refund or replacement. So, unless the guy is better than most in sexing tosai, it's a 50-50 proposition for me, and well worth it.

Seems like a pass go and collect $200 ..

Being able to invest some money and learn for a small price.. What is there to lose except maybe time..???
Where do I sign up? Domestic or not seems like paid education to me...

Joe

[Danjols]

I find the idea novel, innovative and a great marketing tool to help the bottom line. What is cool about the idea, you have a choice to gamble or not. From my point of view, Tosai/Nisai is a gamble worth taking unless the Nisai is a very special koi. Special koi, breeders top five on the farm, insurance makes sense.

[junglegeorge12]

It raises some other questions too. One is, who gets to decide if the koi underperformed or developed less than par? Do you get to make a claim if it simply does not come out of the mud pond a ringer???

Then there is the other side of the coin. When you pay for the good bloodlines and breeder's skill you expect to get just that. So if your tosai comes out looking like a walmart koi, should extra insurance have to be purchased to get either your money back or a decent fish in exchange? I would think an ethical breeder would give you your money's worth just based on ethics, without an extra insurance purchase being necessary. Otherwise come harvest time, everyone who paid for insurance will get a great looking koi, and those who didn't will get the unwanted leftovers and told something must have happened to their koi, which is not a very fair scenario.
Part and I would argue perhaps ALL of the gaurantee with satisfaction should come from the breeder's ethics, not an insurance program. In fact, most insurance programs have so many loopholes in them you wind up not getting your money's worht out of it and it is just a money making scam for the seller. Ups short term profit and at worst he may have to ante up a slightly better koi, which most have plenty of around. When if you have a reputable and ethical breeder that wrangling should not even be necessary, they should do the right thing without the insurance just to keep a good name and a happy customer.
I mean, if a real disaster hits them anyway, what will they be able to do??? Unless they have an insurance that covers it and can let you benefit from that in due time.
Honestly, it sounds to me like someone needs to raise ther available cash amount, and selling extra insurance is just one really good looking way to do that.
Then you will have all the endless wrangling over slight shimmies that may or may not disappear etc. etc. I owuld think it would eb better to have an established relationship with a breeder you can trust and is ethical, plain and simple. That for me is the best insurance to get what you pay for.