I Need Help Please

[luke frisbee]

yeah IF me and JG were standing next to the pond drinking a beer, first I determine if there was a problem...
and then I'd find a simple solution...here there isn't a problem. but Birdman if you want prettier numbers then just do daily 10% water changes or better yet do a trickle-through or Flow-through set-up.
And Bull about what would have happened to this pond if you treated it like the 40,000 gallon pond....

A constant trickle can have a powerful impact on a high density pond, and a flow-through system makes koi smile..as long as the source water is decent (and people are saying your source water is good).
Sure throw a bunch of chemicals at your non-problem...but the truth is you don't have a problem... if you want better water then change it out.

[Birdman]

Quote: Originally Posted by luke frisbee A constant trickle can have a powerful impact on a high density pond, and a flow-through system makes koi smile..as long as the source water is decent (and people are saying your source water is good). Sure throw a bunch of chemicals at your non-problem...but the truth is you don't have a problem... if you want better water then change it out.

That's the direction I am trying to go Luke. Right now I am doing a 500 gal a day change. And only adding just enough calcium to keep the GH at 150 or above. Remenber the GH and KH of my well water is only around 50.

[PapaBear]

Yup George, that's what I'm gonna do .
Like the man said, the fish are fine. Happy fish, with an algae bloom. It happens all the time where wild carp live and thrive because it is part of a natural cycle. No algae, no wild fry food, no more carp If it wasn't for all that green stuff there probably wouldn't be any Koi for us to enjoy in our pristine ponds in the first place. The parent carp would have all died out several millenia ago.
Now obviously we prefer to keep the nitrates down by other means so we can have nice, unnaturally, clear water, but I'm pretty sure that just about everyone on the board has had one go green, now matter how many showers, towers, mats, rocks, Kaldness, BM... they have running. Sometimes it just happens and we bust our butts to figure out why and how to "fix" it.
In this case it appears that some sort of external environmental change has affected him and his neighbor ph wise, but only him where the algae is concerned. The worst test I saw on the source water was much better than what most people have, and no chlorine/chloramine to boot .
I understand your point about plates shifting and releasing sulfates, etc... but second guessing tectonic foot shuffling is a bit over the top for the average ponder. I seriously doubt many of us are likely to call the USGS for detailed information on subterranian aquifer flows in relation to recent deep tremors on the earths mantle just because our pond went green last week .
We're more likely to find the most likely culprit, treat that issue, and still be left wondering exactly why it may have happened in the first place , but we'll be happy because our water is clear again

[junglegeorge12]

papabear, how do u know if the fish are happy? have you been talking with them again??

Actually he mentioned on another board they have red lines appearing, and a ph of 10. Yes, in the wild algae blooms, it also gets swept away by nice fresh water as Luke indicated. But reality is chemistry of water affects alot of things, which is why we dont find certain types of fish thriving in certain types of water. I have yet to catch a koi at the beach.......as for the green water, we all hate that cuz we spend money on ponds to see our koi....as long as the ph is fine it isn't a problem other than aesthetically (one of the main reasons we all have ponds).

Our friend here added alot of new fish this year, without upgrading the filtration. They are also alot larger than b 4 and eat, poop, and pee more. A flo thru is great, but personally I would prefilter to get rid of cysts, sediment, and anything making my water slightly unhealthy or unpleasant to look at.
Could be as simple as the sun in this case. Or airborn algae or algae promoters(ie phosphates or certain sulfates), especially if it greens up alot more after rain downpours(if u get them there). Getting them out of the source water will reduce their impact if that is the case.

As for chlorine, chloramine, or bromine, the site said those were supposed to be added later at the local level, haven't heard whether his gets that treatment or not.

See what I mean by Luke's different view than mine?? He simply looks at the koi, knows they must feel as slap happy drunk as him if they r swimming, and decides there is no problem. Glad you checked your ph birdman. Enjoy your swim Luke.

Larry, you are right, we all get hit with green water from time to time, but not to the point of so much algae our ph tops 10. Jnorth posted what can happen when that occurs. JR kept bringin up iron and another person brought up iron sulfite in the lava rock, I don't think JR mentioned that by coincidence or out of ignorance. Might not be an issue here, but is certainly another thing for us all to investigate and consider in our individual cases.

Keep us posted birdman as your ph comes down, and we want to see pics once the water is clear......

[Birdman]

Still making good progress. KH and GH at 8PM tonight was 161 PPM, AND! PH down to 8.6. After two days with new UV's on I think the water is starting to clear, maybe just a bit.

[junglegeorge12]

that is good news, out of the danger zone must feel better.

Just to update for the purpose of comparing notes over time to see if we can come up with low cost ways to keep our water good, my ph is now at 7.4-7.5, and the water is slowly clearing. I suspect the peat moss is having an effect and also that the carbon is keeping the filter from getting hammered with water changes. My water changer routine has remained the same throughout.

The incoming water is now flowed over a container of carbon and into a container of peat moss, then drips into the pond directly over an airstone. The water is slowly changing from a greenish tint to a dark and clearer tint. I can see the airstone clearly now.

[Birdman]

Quote: Originally Posted by junglegeorge12 that is good news, out of the danger zone must feel better. .

You bet I do, and I'm sure my fish do also. It's still slowly coming down. Just checked it, 8.5 at 6AM this morning.

[PapaBear]

Glad to hear things are turning around.
If you could, please keep us posted on what you are doing now and tracking the changes as things progress. There have been so many changes in water quality and treatment since this thread started it would be valuable to others down the road to see what worked and what didn't so they can avoid the problems and go straight to the solutions that worked for you.

[Birdman]

Will do Larry. If you remenber when I 1st discovered my high PH problem I went into panic mode. My PH was reading over 9 in the morning and swinging to over 10 in the late afternoon. This we think was caused by the alge bloom. I started adding muratic acid to lower the PH, added baking soda to raise the KH, all these did were fight each other. I was trying to follow Roddy Conrad's article with out understanding it.

Then I spoke with Dr. Conrad. We had a long phone conversation and he was able to explain my problem, and water chemistry in a way I could understand. He explained if I kept my KH and GH high enough they would slowly lower the PH. He also explained this would eat the sodium bicarbonate and the calcium carbornate but not the magnesium carbonate. So I added equal parts calcium carbonate and epson salts to get thr GH up to 161. I added baking soda to get the KH up to 161. As I did my daily 500 gal water changes I kept the GH and KH up to 161 by adding small amounts of baking soda and calcium carbonate, but not epson salts, as he explained the magnesium would not be depleated.

He was right, by doing this my PH has slowly been droping 2 tenths a day, and is very stable. Not swinging anymore. This moring it was down to 8.5.

He also advised doing a 1 PPM PP Treatment to kill off the alge and if possible add UV sterlizers. I have ordered the PP but it hasn't come yet. I did manage to scrounge up two 57 watt UV's to put in my savio skimmer. Roddy thought these would not be big enough to totally kill off the alge, but after the PP treatment, should be big enough to keep the alge killed.

So that's it in a nutshell. I have had a lot of help and suggestions from a lot of people. I really appriciate that. With out everyone's help I would have a wet hole on the ground with a bunch of dead fish. I decided to go with one person and follow his advice, as to not mess things up by trying to do to many different things from to many different suggestions. DR. Conrad has taking a lot of his time helping me with this, and I just can't thank him enough.

[Birdman]

The pond is coming around good. The last few days my morning PH has been 7.9 and my afternoon PH 8.1. The KH and GH are staying at 160 unless I do a water change then it drops to 140 and I add a little baking soda and calcium chloride to bring it back up to 160.

The UVs are slowly working. The water has gone from thick green to a more blue color and I can now see about two feet deep instead of 6 inches.