I Need Help Please

[jnorth]

Quote: Originally Posted by Birdman The well water isn't free, it's a cumminity well. But it's a whole lot cheaper than junk. OK, if the well water is 8.2, then what brought my PH up to 9.2?

Air maybe. Put some well water in a bucket and check the ph. Shake it up and then set it out in the sun for an hour or so. Then check the ph again.

I had this same problem last year but unfortunately it happened while I was out of town. Came home to a lot of algae and a ph over 10. I ended up draining the most of it and killing of the algae with PP. Before that happened though I lost one koi and damaged several others. All of them were blind for several weeks.

This one died


This one was blind for awhile and lost most of its sumi. This pic was taken two months after the incedent and you can see the sumi starting to recover. If you check my current avatar you can see what it looked like about two months ago. At the moment the sumi is finally emerging again on the head. So its been a year and still not recovered 100%



This shot is also from about two months after the high ph problem. As you can see this koi looks blind. The eyes recovered on all but one little showa that I don't have a pic of right now. You can see an update of this ochiba in the ochiba thread.

[KoiCop]

the algae is the problem, not your water. You need to attack the problem and not the symptom (just like Childers said).

Stop adding baking soda. If you continue to add BS then stop adding muriatic acid (just like Roddy said).

The CaCl will help, long term (just like Arthur said).

To attack the algae stop feeding, double your water changes and shade as much of the pond as possible.

Be advised: The small ammonia/nitirite spike you've recently seen can do significant harm to your koi at these elevated PH levels.

[junglegeorge12]

I would aerate and test the well water seperately after letting it sit like that in a seperate bucket overnight.(jnorths idea) You might have a source water issue. Anything from using a cement waterway to get it to you to the well itself being affected by something could do it. Volcanoes can affect both rain and well water, got any nearby?

Here I am fighting off the effects of ash in the rain from a volcanoe on a neighboring island spewing it out. I am combatting it by catching rainwater and filtering the ash out, then feeding it into the pond so the direct rains gets washed right out by the filtered rain water. Here that is easy to do since we get such heavy rainfalls. The good thing is it does cause spirulina to grow, but 10 is too high, mine doesn't get nearly that high. Is your water cloudy with algae yet? If the source water is ok have you changed feeds or messed with the filters in any way? Are you using dechlor so u dont wipe out your biological filter? I like Art's idea with the oyster shells if everything else checks out ok.

[PapaBear]

Baking Soda is fine for the quick fix, but is a flash in the pan bandaid buffer. Oyster shell and Coral offer the long term buffering you need, but take much too long to fix todays problem in a hurry. This is where plaster of paris is good fit. Make plaster of paris "hockey pucks" with a muffin tin for a mold. Let them dry completely for 24-48 hrs, and toss a half dozen in your pond. They will release Calcium Carbonate much faster than shells, but last 100X longer than Baking Soda. They should stabilize your ph at 8.2-8.5, which will keep the water safe while you get the source of the problem fixed. Keeping a few around for "rainy day" re-buffering can come in handy too.

[Birdman]

Thank you all for your help. I think I have a plan, but 1st a review.

Our well water comes from a 900 foot deep priviately owned community well. No chlorine is added to the well water. PH is usually 8.2 to 8.4, KH and GH always 72.

My pond is 12,500 Gal. No UV, green water.
My neighbors pond is 7,000 Gal. Big UV, clear water.

A couple of weeks ago my PH went from it's normal 8.2 to over 9. It has been suggested I got cement dust in my pond from my construction. It has also been suggested my PH went up from the alge. Both good suggestions and possible except, My neighbors pond, on the same well water has a big UV and no construction, fully landscaped for several years.
And my neighbor's pond also went up to over 9 PH. So his pond with no cement dust and a big UV is going through what my pond is going through. Dosn't make any sense to me.

Anyway, Last night I dumped about 70% of my pond. It took all night from 3 hoses to fill it back up. I fired the pumps up at 5AM this morning and at 6AM did my testing.

My PH is now 8.3
KH is now 90
GH is now 107

I feel much better, my fish happily greeted me begging for food so they apear to be just fine. They are taking the water stress a lot better than I have been.

My plan of attack is to backwash my vortex on Sundays, and backwash my bio filter on Wed. This will be an 1,100 gal water change weekly. Hopefully this will maintain the PH in the low 8s. If this isn't enough I will increase the water changes. No more muratic acid.
I can add small amounts of Calcium Chloride to maintain the GH and small amounts of Baking Soda to maintain the KH. From what I have been told if I can keep the KH and GH above 100 this should buffer the PH and help keep it from rising.

In summery, I still have no idea what raised the PH in the 1st place in both ponds, But now I think I have a workable plan.

Comments please?

[luke frisbee]

Steve,
Good Idea!
I mentioned i would have gradually increased the water changes..i woula ALSO continue to change out 10-20% of the water everyday if I could afford it. Starting today.
Flow through systems with good well water are the pinnacle of "Quality water, and therefore QUALITY KOI.
If you follow the above protocol you will need LESS filtration...

throwing various chemicals to control the ph gh kh whateverh just makes a thick chemical soup...those chemicals don't go anywhere tll you flush, they jus tbecome something else.

[mitten]

Steve-

If your pond has an overflow then a constant addition of water would be a great way to maintain PH, maintain hardness and KH reserve, and maintain the fish in premium conditions. Dump sediments from the vortex daily. There would then be (kinda) no need for water changes of signficant size.

The usual reason to not do this with a well is that a slow trickle will cycle the well pump on/off all the time, shortening its life. With your community well this may not be a concern depending on the holding system y'all have.

Mickey the windowman

[Birdman]

Quote: Originally Posted by mitten Steve- If your pond has an overflow then a constant addition of water would be a great way to maintain PH, maintain hardness and KH reserve, and maintain the fish in premium conditions. Dump sediments from the vortex daily. There would then be (kinda) no need for water changes of signficant size.

In theroy, Yes. But remenber, although my well water PH is OK, it's KH and GH is between 50 to 70, so I would be always lowering the hardness with more water changed.

[MikeM]

Birdman: Your KH and GH are low, but perfectly fine for koi if on a constant in-flow system. The soft water is great for many varieties.... like Asagi! But the cost can be prohibitive in some situations. Oyster shell or other shell in a chamber added to your filtration system is one way to address the issue. Strange that both you and your neighbor experienced the same sudden increase in pH. Sounds like something was in the air.

[Birdman]

Quote: Originally Posted by MikeM Birdman: Your KH and GH are low, but perfectly fine for koi if on a constant in-flow system. The soft water is great for many varieties.... like Asagi! But the cost can be prohibitive in some situations. Oyster shell or other shell in a chamber added to your filtration system is one way to address the issue. Strange that both you and your neighbor experienced the same sudden increase in pH. Sounds like something was in the air.

I do have one asagi and two more on the way, and one shsui. But won't a GH and HK of 150 or higher help stabilize the PH?

I have lots of oyster shell, we use it for grit for the pigeons. Will oyster shell raise the KH or the GH?