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Old 05-20-2006   #71 (permalink)
Tosai
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 22
Caution: ALL 'wild rocks' of any kind should be well tested before using in bulk on your koi pond.

Submerge the test rocks in a 55 gallon plastic trash can and monitor pH , hardness, iron etc for at least a week.

JR
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Old 05-20-2006   #72 (permalink)
Oyagoi
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Puerto Rico
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Hey nice to see you JR, missed you, how are you doing?

Thx for the advice, I will heed it.

is a week enuf? and should I do the same with coconut husks? Should the can be left inside or in the sun?
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Old 05-22-2006   #73 (permalink)
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Location: Crooked River Ranch, OR.
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I had a nice phone conversation with Dr. Roddy Conrad a couple of days ago. He took all the time I needed to explain water chemistry to me in a way I could actually understand. He set me up with a plan of attack. I also was able to order two 57 watt UV sterilizers to go in my savio skimmer. All this took place a couple of days ago.

Today the pond is looking better and coming around. As Roddy suggested I have been trying to maintain 150 PPM both GH and KH. And doing a 500 gal water change daily. My PH has stopped swinging so violently and in fact has started to slowly drift down. This morning it was 9.3 and at 5 PM today it's 9.2. I am ordering some PP tomorrow and will dose the pond, once again as per Roddy's directions. This will kill all the alge and anything the fish might be suffering from. And my new UV's should be here tomorrow so things are looking better. I'm feeling better, and my fish are still eating me out of house and home.
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Old 05-22-2006   #74 (permalink)
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great, so what did roddy say the problem was??? what is causing the algae blooms and the problem to start with??? r u going to do anything about phosphates or source water issues or just slap a UV on it and leave the water the same? I'd be interested to know what roddy is saying these days...
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Old 05-22-2006   #75 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junglegeorge12
great, so what did roddy say the problem was??? what is causing the algae blooms and the problem to start with??? r u going to do anything about phosphates or source water issues or just slap a UV on it and leave the water the same? I'd be interested to know what roddy is saying these days...
I have a similar thread going over at koiphen. This is where Roddy started helping me. You can read what he had to say at
http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40387
I would try and summerize for you but I know I would miss something. And everytime I type a long reply this forum locks up and I lose everything.
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Old 05-22-2006   #76 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junglegeorge12
what is causing the algae blooms and the problem to start with??? r u going to do anything about phosphates or source water issues or just slap a UV on it and leave the water the same? I'd be interested to know what roddy is saying these days...
Basicly I'm going to kill the alge with PP, keep the water clear with UV, and put a carbon filter on my supply water.
Right now with keeping my KH and GH up to 150 the PH has settled down and is slowly going down.
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Old 05-22-2006   #77 (permalink)
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Lightbulb Sounds like a plan

Doc Roddy seems to have you headed in the right direction. Breaking everything down to the basics helps to clear things up quite a bit doesn't it? Glad you got the info you needed.
A few things worth taking note of in all this.
Your water chemistry imbalance appears to be a trigger for the alage takeover, which started a self-perpetuating cycle of imbalance. Too often it is tempting to treat the symptoms rather than fix the problem at its source, which gives the lasting solutions we all look for.
Also, your fish seemed to suffer no ill affects, even with the ph spikes around 10. No signs of alkylosis or loss of appetite. It is entirely possible that the algae may have been offering some protection to your fish that partially offset some of the problems they would have experienced if the water had been clear. Letting the water and the fish both tell us what is going on is just as important as any test kit.
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Old 05-22-2006   #78 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaBear
Doc Roddy seems to have you headed in the right direction. Breaking everything down to the basics helps to clear things up quite a bit doesn't it? Glad you got the info you needed.
A few things worth taking note of in all this.
Your water chemistry imbalance appears to be a trigger for the alage takeover, which started a self-perpetuating cycle of imbalance. Too often it is tempting to treat the symptoms rather than fix the problem at its source, which gives the lasting solutions we all look for.
Also, your fish seemed to suffer no ill affects, even with the ph spikes around 10. No signs of alkylosis or loss of appetite. It is entirely possible that the algae may have been offering some protection to your fish that partially offset some of the problems they would have experienced if the water had been clear. Letting the water and the fish both tell us what is going on is just as important as any test kit.
Boy, I don't know what came 1st Larry. The water was green before I detecked the high PH. But it is slowly coming down, 9.2 this morning, and it's not swinging anymore so I'm making progress. Yes, Doc Roddy has been a great help.
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Old 05-23-2006   #79 (permalink)
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I am not sure I understand how a carbon filter is going to change things related to ph swings and algae growth??? I won't use pp or a UV light and filter the phosphates, sulfurs, and iron out of my source water and see how it goes. I will let you know. My ph is in the mid 7s now. In a nice way I am trying to tell you that imho Roddy is trying to help but is having you fix symptoms, which do need some adressing (like a tumor causing a headache, fine to take some tylenol for the headache but it won't make the tumor go away?), the root of the problem is source water and filtration, and possibly feed content.
If you have ever studied physical geography you would know that at that depth are lots and lots of limestone beds where water collects, which will cause very high phosphate levels (among other things but that is the most significant in terms of algae growth), and possibly very high levels of iron, and sulfates, which will cause your whole ph cycle to respond freakishly and out of the norm to normal treatments and the infusion of air and oxygen. High iron can kill your koi. Your lava rock may also be leaching iron sulfite or other iron related elements. At those depths there is not much oxygen in the water, so bringing it up and spraying it will gas off lots of stuff (carbon dioxide, sulfur dioxide, etc etc), and also oxygenate. Then that changes your whole chemistry and ph balance.
You will not find koi living in your well water, or any other type of fish. So trying to keep the oxygen levels low only duplicates that environment, rather than eradicating the real issues. It will give short term relief, but won't resolve the real issues imho, and could possibly weaken your koi immune systems, making them susceptible to other problems. It is a proven fact that high levels of oxygen boost koi immune systems, and low levels supress it. You might want to ask JR if the iron can cause the red lines that were brought up.

I also recommend highly a shower, as Luke did and I know JR has many times too. The PP may also kill some things in your upflow filter causing problems. I think you need to consider ways to keep debris and anaerobic bacterias from collecting down there in the corners. I do not recommend less aeration, just the opposite, I think you need much more. I personally would try to find a way to worm an airstone down into each of those corners, to avoid having to dig out the whole thing. One way is to take a pipe large enuf to slide the airstone thru, and blast water thru it to sort of dig down thru the lava rock while pushing and wiggling til it reaches the bottom, then slide your airstone down and remove the pipe, and gently push the lava rock back into place.

We had some heavy rains last week when this thread started loaded with volcanoe junk, my water greened up too, and my ph went up to 8.9. WAY too high for me. I added an airstone, some more biological filter media in my shower and creek, japmat disk in my vortex, and am putting the source water filter on today to get rid of phosphates and iron and sulfates from both the rain runoff water and the source water. Now my ph is already down to 7.5, and will be 7.2 within a few days. The algae will be dead within a week or so when I have replaced enuf pond water with iron, sulfur, and phosphate free source water and given it a couple days. What I am trying to say tactfully, is that the algae CANNOT make the problem, it simply feeds off the problem, as your friend's pond is telling you. Take it's food away and it will leave like anything else.

How can adding an airstone affect ph??? Not directly in terms of lowering it in your situation. hwat it will do is help to gas off nitrates and ammonia, cutting away at the algae's food supply, reducing it's growth and causing it to start to slowly thin. That will means it will have less ability to negatively affect your ph. In a test facility with no algae issues and sufficient biological filtration to remove nitrates completely, that would be ineffective. But in our ponds, it would work quite well.
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Old 05-23-2006   #80 (permalink)
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Location: Crooked River Ranch, OR.
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Hi George, 1st of all I want to thank you again for all the help and info you have been giving me. I really appriciate it. I don't know how you can get away with such a long reply because it seams when I exceed a couple of paragraphs Koi Bito locks up and I have to re boot my computer.

Earlier today I spoke with the head lab tech. at the local state Department of equalige water testing lab. This lady has been working at this lab here in Central Oregon for 17 years and knows my water like the back of her hand. The Central Oregon Aquifer that we get our water from is one of the purest, deepest, and largest in America. Streching over a hundred miles wide and over 200 miles long, and they arn't really sure how deep it is. What they do know is it is what they call prehistoric water, formed back in the early days of the formation of the earth. She said ground water has never got in it and it is super pure. She has never seen any phosphates. The only time it ever changes is after an earth quake they will see a slight rise in sufates.

She directed me to the state web site where all the water tests for my water are. I haven't fully studyed it all yet but if you wish, feel free to take a look. Maybe you can see something there. It's at
http://170.104.158.16/inventory.php3?pwsno=00862
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