Eye Flukes

[Russell Peters]

PP is not always affective even at high doses, and at high doses it oxidizes organic matter, such as gill tissue. My beef with Supraverm is that it is generally used as a sheep dip on the exterior of animals. In Europe there has been a lot of talk about long term affects on Koi, including internal organ damage. PraziPro is 100% affective, does not harm filter function and is safe for Koi. It is more expensive than Supraverm, but why take a chance.

[B.Scott]

Marie,
Eye flukes are a bit special. The live IN the eye, not on it. You will only find one fluke per eye. So if you see lots of specks ON the eye it's got to be something else.

B.Scott

[KoiCop]

the size of eye flukes, but gill flukes and skin flukes can not be seen with the naked eye -- a microscope is required. That being the case, I would be shocked if one could "see" eye flukes with one's eyes, so I'm gonna bet something else is going on here.

[Sangreaal]

Quote: Originally Posted by koiczar Marie How do you know it's a fluke infection? Did you use a scope? If not, you could be treating for something that isn't even there. If that ends up being the case, you've spent your time and money for naught. I have NEVER heard of "eye flukes" or even that they are a problem for koi. Yours is the first case for me. Keep us posted. Also, if your fish seemed to be feeling better after dosing only .01% salt and you plan on bumping it up higher, I would continue with that treatment before starting anything else more drastic until you KNOW FOR SURE what you're dealing with. Now, not to burst your bubble Dick B but I wouldn't be caught dead using Supraverm EVER!! I know there was great debate about this issue on a couple of the other boards and I'm not trying to start one here, just MHO. As you mentioned, proper mixing protocols are a MUST and there still is no guarantee that you've got the right dosage. I only trust PraziPond. It's much safer, you can overdose and it won't cause any caustic-type burns on the fish. It also kills ALL types of flatworms and trematodes, which is what a fluke is. I've used PraziPond every spring and fall for the last three seasons with great effectiveness:e.g. - 10 slides from 3 fish with 0 flukes after 4 days in sinu!! I also follow up that treatment with a full regimen of ProFormC. I employ a 4 day break between the two treatments with about 30% water changes during the break. What's the old saying - An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure???!!! Mike

Mike, I'd give anything to be able to take a close up pic of what I see on the lens of my koi's eyes so you can see what's going on. Autumn has let me very gently rub my fingertips over her eyes while nestled in my hand in the water to see if it might be some detritus stuck on the lens. I can't feel anything, It's not grit or any hard solid, but some kind of translucent to clear specks, some round but most oblong on her and Jumanji's eyes that look very similar in shape (too small to see details) to pics of eye flukes found on trout and salmon (both of which are abundant in the Sacramento river just behind me). I do not have a scope, though I have a 30x lighted magnifying field scope that would certainly be of use to look at their eyes without scraping (these things would be big enough to show up large at this magnification), but I don't know how to do this without stressing either of them to the max out of water.

I was hoping that the salt might help "wash" these things off, but they're not going. Neither are the koi's eyes clouding up with cataracts--yet. Like I said, they are both really happy clams right now and show no signs of stress, injury or sickness other than the translucent/clear specks that almost resemble minute frog or snail egg sacks.

Marie

[Sangreaal]

Quote: Originally Posted by B.Scott Marie, Eye flukes are a bit special. The live IN the eye, not on it. You will only find one fluke per eye. So if you see lots of specks ON the eye it's got to be something else. B.Scott

Quote: Originally Posted by KoiCop the size of eye flukes, but gill flukes and skin flukes can not be seen with the naked eye -- a microscope is required. That being the case, I would be shocked if one could "see" eye flukes with one's eyes, so I'm gonna bet something else is going on here.

Well now I'm worried all over again--I so hate not knowing...

If flukes cannot be seen and there would only be one fluke per eye, then obviously it must be something else, but what? On Autumn, there are two on one eye and three on the other. On Jumanji, there are 3-5 on each eye. They cannot be felt. They are easy to see, but not in detail with the naked eye. I moved everyone else (sarassas) in the temporary pond to a new, freshly filled one yesterday and checked each and every eye as I caught them. No one else has these on the lenses of their eyes. Out of 30+ fish, only the two koi have them.

I will not medicate "shotgun style." I have raised the salt level in the QT to .2, am feeding krill dusted in bentonite clay and bluegreen algae to buff up their immune systems along with Hikari Staple pellets and a little sliced orange and a little shredded spinach. (little bits of everything listed several times a day, not enough for them to get full each time--and they eat like piscean pigs) I don't know what else to do....

Marie

[B.Scott]

Marie,
Just did a bit more reading up and I may be mistaken about one fluke per eye but I'm not sure. They are internal though. I would try a dose of Flubedazole or or if you can't get that Fenbendazole. That kills them on the inside and out.

B.Scott

[Sangreaal]

Quote: Originally Posted by B.Scott Marie, Just did a bit more reading up and I may be mistaken about one fluke per eye but I'm not sure. They are internal though. I would try a dose of Flubedazole or or if you can't get that Fenbendazole. That kills them on the inside and out. B.Scott

Thanks B. I'll remember that. My first problem though, is diagnosis. If flukes cannot be seen with the naked eye, what am I seeing? I really hate to medicate unless I'm sure of what I'm medicating for. My second dilemma is, how am I going to figure out what this is? I really like to get the jump on things before they get even close to the point of no return, but if I don't know what's going on, I'm afraid to jump.

Marie---->swimming between the Scylla and the Charibdes

[B.Scott]

Marie I can't say It would help if we could see it. Have a camera with a good macro on it? Know someone that does that could take some pictures?

B.Scott

[koiczar]

Marie

Translucent bumps that almost look like snail egg sacks - hmmmm- have you looked closely to see if by chance there are any on the body or fins of either of these two? If so, this could just be a case of lymphocystis or carp pox. Both of these take on a round to irregular shape, are cloudy to somewhat translucent and usually will go away as the water warms up - BUT - sometimes not til the second summer. They are evidently not contagious and from what you describe (you mentioned sarrasas goldfish) all of your other fish are in fact goldfish. Well that explains a lot. The goldfish are not susceptable to the same infections as koi (other than ich and a couple others). A close -up shot as B. Scott mentioned with a "macro" lens would be most helpful at this stage.

Mike

[Sangreaal]

I'm going to try and get some pics today. My old Mavica won't focus really really close, but perhaps if I put it on max resolution I can come up with something by resampling the pics.

I've looked them over from top to bottom and end to end--not one single spot of anything anywhere on them. One thing I HAVE to do is get them out of the 30 gallon QT and into something substantially bigger. Since the last time they were quarantined I had that shipment of small koi that bit the big weenie and I dumped and cleaned the tank afterwards--ergo, the water didn't have time to season before I put them in there and it is a bear to keep it balanced. Doing 50% water changes every day....

As soon as I can get any kind of decent pics I'll post them.

Thanks guys,

Marie