Our New Pond from holland

[math en peggy]

now you can watch our site at www.mathenpeggy.nl

our new pond is not finished,
I'm still thinking what I best can do with my filter

[dick benbow]

Math,
I always have to laugh when I see someone excusing their english. Because i think about myself, who speaks english and wouldn't Have the nerve to try anything else. ( My japanese is very poor! ) I have always been impressed with those who post here from europe as they think nothing of speaking 3-4 lanquages fluently.
Thank-you for posting here, Sincerely.....your english is an encouragement to me that maybe there may be a chance for me someday.
I, like Scott , believe that it's actually easier to keep bigger water than smaller ponds...and yes I too think your koi will thank-you. Scott makes some good points about biological filtration and location of filter drains and plumbing.
Who do you have there where you live that you can learn from, do you have a koi club nearby?

[RayJordan]

Math,
We visited your beautiful country for the first time a few weeks ago. The Dutch National Koi show is amazing and the Dutch people are wonderful. We were so impressed with hospitality, lovely gardens and koi ponds we saw. Amsterday was a special treat as well. Martha & I had a great time and would love to visit again someday.

[math en peggy]

hi dick,

our plan is to use the 12000 liter pond for only plants and the 17000 liter for our koi, they will be connected with a pump, so that the water is the same but the koi can't come to the plants

the plants will have a positive influence to the water

also there will be a seperated filter installation to the koi pond, that will start with the bottomdrain - two filters with japanese mats and a uv-lamp
I'm not sure if you know what I mean, but I will post some pictures later

most info I get from koieagle, that's a club over holland and belgium, they have a forum where a lot of people visit:
www.koieagle.nl

ray,

we visited also the koishow, we live about 20 minutes driving from there
maybe when you visit again you can watch our pond to

[B.Scott]

Math,
I don't agree about the plants. In general you will find that ponds with a "plant filter" have a much lower ORP than those ponds with no plants. I know that within Holland many people choose plant filters believing these will absorb nitrogen compounds from the water and thus lower nitrate levels and improve water quality. It is a belief one often will find in those just starting out with koi of those stuck in one place in their knowledge of how a pond should be kept. Many people disagree with me and the battle to convince them is one I usually lose. The truth is most people with plants don't want to hear anything other that the fact that they are doing it great. I don't agree but what should I do, twist their arms until the admit I'm right? Of course not In the end we are all free to believe what we wish be it true or not. If you want a plant pond, I say why not? I just wouldn't put koi into that water. If you look about you will see most folk with hi end fish and much experience don't have plants either. There is a reason for this!

At this moment I am crunching some numbers and hope to come up with some calculations as to how many kilos of plants it would take to convert nitrogen waste of an average fish in a pond. The sums aren't finished yet but I believe it will be closer to 100's of kilos than 10kg.
I will be posting this on http://forum.nvn-koi.nl/index.php?topic=5953. in Dutch if you want to follow it.

De mazzel
B.Scott

[math en peggy]

hi scott,

it's nice to see a whole different view, I won't say you're wrong because I don't really know, plant pond is an idea that we had and most people I spoke with told me the idea wasn't bad

we started with a pond 4500 liters of water, just a nice pond, then came the koi,
then I got info about koi and I realized my pond wasn't very good for koi, so we started a new pond next to the old one

oke the old one got a little bigger in the mean time, but that's how we found the plan of making a plant pond to help filtering the water of the new pond

do you think that a plant pond is a bad influence to the water in the koi pound?

[B.Scott]

Right now In the NVN forum I have thrown down the gauntlet The boys and girls are taking it up with a vengence. I'm surrounded by the plant people on all side!

It's a long story rich and I have said it too many times for it to be fun but basically it comes down to the fact that

1. A veggie filter will do little to lower nitrates unless it has a surface area that is 10x that of the pond.

2. They will not reduce Blanket Weed (unless they meet criteria #1) and will not out compete algae.

3. They form a breeding biotrop for harmful bacteria and encourage anaerobic conditions in which harmful bacteria thrive.

4. They will lower your ORP readings and possibly cause greater swings in pH.

5. They make application of meds to the pond much more difficult and expensive and form a possible untreatable reservoir of harmful organisms.

6. Plants placed in the filter are possible vectors of infection.

7. Some people tend to feel that plant filters are an alternitive to water changes; They aren't.

[marco]

Welcome between us

Quote: Originally Posted by B.Scott Math, The truth is most people with plants don't want to hear anything other that the fact that they are doing it great. I don't agree but what should I do, twist their arms until the admit I'm right? B.Scott

Why not ?

Anyway I first did the mistake to put the bottom drain on one side, thinking that the water inlet (on the other side) will push the s... to the bottom drain, that was a mistake
Marco

[math en peggy]

hi, I've read it and I'm registered to at NVM

1 I agree
2 I agree
3 I don't know, you could be right
4 I agree
5 I think there's a easy way around it, you could simply take the connection between koi pound and plant pond away temporary, still you have the risk that the infection why you needed the medications will come back after you restored the connection, so here you have a good point

6 like everything you put in your pond is a risk of infections, is the same with every plant you submit, so to keep your risk low, it's better to submit the less as possible, once again You have a good point, I'm not sure if I whrote right what I mean

7 I agree

so once again, you're story is not crazy but something to seriously consider

[math en peggy]

so now al little over a year later, our new pond is finished

you can see the air coming from the bottomdrain

a picture from my bedroom window


since last february the pond got filled wth water and we placed first 2 koi in there
one chagoi of 42 cm
one sanke of 35 cm



our filter is a vortex (200 liter) and a 330 liter threeroom filter, I don't know how you cal these filters. pump is 8m3/h and there is a 80l/m airpump, to bring air in the filter and to the bottemdrain

I releaze the filter is eventualy to small for te pond, but we had this filter and it's good to start up

when the temperatures got higher (above 15 degrees celsius) we added two koi to the pond:
one tancho sanke 36cm
one ghost koi 40cm





this year there will not be any koi added to the pond

first we are going to upgrade our filter
now it's 550 liter contence total with a 8m3/h pump
it will be 4 containers of 500 liter each with a 12 m3/h pump

this should be ready after the next winter time, then when it works right we will add the next koi

our plant pond is also ready, I have made a skimmer where the water goes through to the plant pond (12 m3) here are only plants with 4 very little goldfish

a 5m3/h pump brings the water back to the koi pond
here you can have an idea of how it's works


and how it looks


from the other side