Koi problems, Pics help Diagnose - Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine

bigred · 06-12-2006

Here's some pics of a Kohaku I lost today. I have had him for about a week and I have lost 4 fish like this and I finally took pics. Please help me figure this out. I took pics of both gills and the marks that were on the body.

andrewn15 · 06-12-2006

How is your water quality? are they all died at the same time frame?
what about the rest of your other koi?
The first pict looks like hemical burn than parasite.

PapaBear · 06-12-2006

Have you used any chemical type pond water treatments recently? Algaecide, etc... Some of them can be rather harsh.

bigred · 06-12-2006

Well after testing the water I think I may have found the problem. I have a few out of wack. So off I go to do a water change.

Nitrites= 0.50
Nitrates= 10
Ammonia= 0.25
PH= 7.97

bigred · 06-12-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by PapaBear

Have you used any chemical type pond water treatments recently? Algaecide, etc... Some of them can be rather harsh.

Nope no chemicals. I did add some PH buffer today since my ph was at 8.67.

PapaBear · 06-12-2006

I've seen worse readings without mortality problems so it's still confusing. At your ph level the ammonia is non-lethal and the nitrites/nitrates shouldn't be much of an issue either. How is the chlorine/chloramine on your water supply? Sometimes local municipalities up the chlorination in the spring to compensate for warm weather water problems in lakes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigred

Well after testing the water I think I may have found the problem. I have a few out of wack. So off I go to do a water change.

Nitrites= 0.50
Nitrates= 10
Ammonia= 0.25
PH= 7.97

REC · 06-12-2006

Jim North asked me to look over your pics... if you correlate the body wounds with the damage to the gills in the second picture, we can reasonably beleive this to be flukes (gills flukes, most likely). But the granular dispostion of the damage in the first photo is a bit strange and inconsistent with gill fluke damage. Also, after closer examination, I noted the curled ends of the gill filaments in the second picture.. and it makes me think that this might be chemical as well. I would not rule out costia here, either.

So, I have some questions:

1. It sounds like you added the pH buffer after the other fish died. Is this correct?

2. What was the pH buffer? By any chance was this a "pH down" type of product??? If so, this is acidic and really should not be used under any circumstances with fish in the water.

Regardless of the what the proximate cause is, now we have all the potential for bacterial gill disease as the gill tissue has been compromised and is open for infection. Here is what I would do:

1. Scrape and scope the fish and the gills to see what parasites we are dealing with. This is critically important because with the gills damaged to the extent they are, selecting a med/chem for treatment is going to be a trick. Our usual chems for parasites, including ProForm C and PP will (not might) exasberate the already bad situation with the gills.

2. Get some Chloramine T/BDGX. This is the med for gill bacterial infections. We are going to need it.

3. Get the fish in warm (78 deg F), prisitine, water salted to .3% with lots of aeration. This temp is where the immune system is at its peak and we need all the help we can get.

Let me emphasize that any chem added to the water, except for things like Amquel, Prime, and salt have the potential to cause further damage to the fish so do not be indiscriminate with your med/chem use.

Let me know about the previous deaths and the condition of their gills.

Good luck

REC

jnorth · 06-12-2006

Thanks for stopping by REC. Always a pleasure to get your insight on koi health problems.

mojo · 06-12-2006

the last picture make me worry, seem like a area of skin have been discolored. and i am surprised that it been white (?) Can you look at other fish to see the discoloration on the red (turn yellow?) See at the nose whether it has a severe V notch? touch the fish, and see what you feel, like sand paper? no slime at all? So far it seem like gill fluke exept these things. Once you have gill fluke, they will die one by one, in several days, not at one time. please check and let us know in a hurry.

Brutuscz · 06-13-2006

Anyone consider columnaris?? Can also cause gill damage.

06-12-2006	#1 (permalink)
bigred Nisai Join Date: May 2006 Location: Los Banos, Ca Posts: 82	Koi problems, Pics help Diagnose Here's some pics of a Kohaku I lost today. I have had him for about a week and I have lost 4 fish like this and I finally took pics. Please help me figure this out. I took pics of both gills and the marks that were on the body. Attached Thumbnails

06-12-2006	#3 (permalink)
PapaBear Oyagoi Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Davenport, Oklahoma Posts: 1,769	I think I agree with andrew Have you used any chemical type pond water treatments recently? Algaecide, etc... Some of them can be rather harsh.

06-12-2006	#8 (permalink)
jnorth Jumbo Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: VA Posts: 2,070	Thanks for stopping by REC. Always a pleasure to get your insight on koi health problems. __________________ Koi-Unit My personal koi page Updated 7/8/07 ZNA Potomac

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06-12-2006	#2 (permalink)
andrewn15 Nisai Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Northern California Posts: 56	How is your water quality? are they all died at the same time frame? what about the rest of your other koi? The first pict looks like hemical burn than parasite.

06-12-2006	#4 (permalink)
bigred Nisai Join Date: May 2006 Location: Los Banos, Ca Posts: 82	Well after testing the water I think I may have found the problem. I have a few out of wack. So off I go to do a water change. Nitrites= 0.50 Nitrates= 10 Ammonia= 0.25 PH= 7.97

06-12-2006	#7 (permalink)
REC Nisai Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Warrenton, VA Posts: 72	Jim North asked me to look over your pics... if you correlate the body wounds with the damage to the gills in the second picture, we can reasonably beleive this to be flukes (gills flukes, most likely). But the granular dispostion of the damage in the first photo is a bit strange and inconsistent with gill fluke damage. Also, after closer examination, I noted the curled ends of the gill filaments in the second picture.. and it makes me think that this might be chemical as well. I would not rule out costia here, either. So, I have some questions: 1. It sounds like you added the pH buffer after the other fish died. Is this correct? 2. What was the pH buffer? By any chance was this a "pH down" type of product??? If so, this is acidic and really should not be used under any circumstances with fish in the water. Regardless of the what the proximate cause is, now we have all the potential for bacterial gill disease as the gill tissue has been compromised and is open for infection. Here is what I would do: 1. Scrape and scope the fish and the gills to see what parasites we are dealing with. This is critically important because with the gills damaged to the extent they are, selecting a med/chem for treatment is going to be a trick. Our usual chems for parasites, including ProForm C and PP will (not might) exasberate the already bad situation with the gills. 2. Get some Chloramine T/BDGX. This is the med for gill bacterial infections. We are going to need it. 3. Get the fish in warm (78 deg F), prisitine, water salted to .3% with lots of aeration. This temp is where the immune system is at its peak and we need all the help we can get. Let me emphasize that any chem added to the water, except for things like Amquel, Prime, and salt have the potential to cause further damage to the fish so do not be indiscriminate with your med/chem use. Let me know about the previous deaths and the condition of their gills. Good luck REC

06-12-2006	#9 (permalink)
mojo Nisai Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 136	the last picture make me worry, seem like a area of skin have been discolored. and i am surprised that it been white (?) Can you look at other fish to see the discoloration on the red (turn yellow?) See at the nose whether it has a severe V notch? touch the fish, and see what you feel, like sand paper? no slime at all? So far it seem like gill fluke exept these things. Once you have gill fluke, they will die one by one, in several days, not at one time. please check and let us know in a hurry.

06-13-2006	#10 (permalink)
Brutuscz Oyagoi Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,213	Anyone consider columnaris?? Can also cause gill damage.