Conformation and Body Shape

[bekko]

I've only seen grand champions in photos - where you can't appreciate size and presence.

In the BKKS winner photos on another board, I like the smooth transition from body to head on the adult champion (although the fish is at a funny angle) and, to a lesser extent, the jumbo champ. The grand champ and mature champ have that "ryukin" look where the head appears to have been stuck onto the front of the body. Since koi are to be appreciated from the top, it would seem that a smooth top-view profile (outline), without constrictions in the flow of the curve, would be important.

-steveho

[MikeM]

The shoulder hump can be bothersome. I do not know if it is a result of crossing into Magoi or doitsu fish for size, but it does echo the shoulder development in the European food fish. I generally associate it with a body type that grows large and holds bulk well. ... Here is a shoulder hump of unforgettable dimension...on a faded beauty who once was acclaimed as among the best Nishikigoi to come to the West.

[bekko]

nice ryukin

[MikeM]

These koi are taken from the Keirin Koi site. The Chagoi are 85cm and 83cm, respectively. The Gin Rin Ochiba is about 60cm (if I recall correctly). These are massive fish whose attraction is largely in the size itself. I think it instructive to compare the bodies of these three... any of which I would enjoy raising.

[MikeM]

Then compare to these Hosokai Kohaku, also from Keirin Koi's website. (I love the look of these fish.)

[MikeM]

...And the very different bodies of these Kohaku from Koda and Iwashita.

[luke frisbee]

ahhhh? MikeM....you forgot to put the "and I'd be happy to have these fish" after the last group.......

[luke frisbee]

but thanks for some good pics to spalin things

[johnsmith]

Mike M, came across this sketch of a wild type carp and a domestic carp ( from a TFH publication). JR

[MikeM]

Nice comparison. The greater bulk in the shoulder and along the entire upper portion is obvious, but also note the difference in the fins. Kinda off-topic, but I've noticed undersized pectorals and shortened caudal fins on some koi having magoi traits. I assumed it was a magoi influence, but perhaps the undersized fins were traceable to another set of genes in the background.

...There were some highly regarded show fish in the early '80s with undersized pectorals, particularly within Showa. The disproportion appeared worse when younger, but the pecs "caught up" a bit by the time the fish was 8 or more years old, although still undersized. Quality improvement, of course, has eliminated such koi from the show ring the past 20 years.

Thanks for posting that, JR.