Breeding question

[RKM]

I would like to produce kujaku offspring. What are the appropriate parents for doing this? Is it a cross of gin matsuba and kohaku?

[Regenmeneer]

I guess the easiest way would be to use Kujaku parents. I would try to get your oyagoi from one breeder and parent set.

[PapaBear]

Hikarimuji with Goshiki. I assume the Hikarimuji line was Matsuba.

[dick benbow]

It is always best as suggested to start with parents of the same color variety
in most cases...but not always. Beni Kumonryu is a good example and i could name some others...But if i were you i'd stick with the same with this color variety. Remember it's the male who brings the pattern, the black matsuba pattern is often affected by the water hardness. there are two color varieties
to that variety including the newer red Kujacku...you might want to consider
one of each color (orange and red ) Since this is a Hikari variety remember that
bright glow is very important in breeders more so than pattern..

[RKM]

I ask this question because I am curious whether reasonable kujaku offspring can be produced by crossing a gin rin kohaku (which I have, possibly egg-bearing) with a gin matsuba (male to be purchased, if I can find a good one). What do the Japanese breeders known for their kujaku use as breeding pairs? Kujaku x kujaku?

[dick benbow]

Let's just say you find a " good one " matsuba male and breed it with your GR Kohaku, and you get a sterling individual. How would you ever duplicate that gene pool when it's so fragmented? you could spend the rest of your life trying and never get another good one again. If for economic reasons you insist on using your kohaku, why don't you try a kujaku male?

[RKM]

My intent is to experiment with this for fun, not become a breeder. If kujaku/kujaku is the way to go then at some point in the future I may purchase a second one of the opposite sex and try it. Since I was reading in the book Kokugyo that the underlying pattern of the kujaku is the gin matsuba, over which is the kohaku pattern, I thought it would be interesting to see if one could produce respectable offspring by breeding these varieties.

[koiczar]

Quote: Originally Posted by RKM My intent is to experiment with this for fun, not become a breeder. If kujaku/kujaku is the way to go then at some point in the future I may purchase a second one of the opposite sex and try it. Since I was reading in the book Kokugyo that the underlying pattern of the kujaku is the gin matsuba, over which is the kohaku pattern, I thought it would be interesting to see if one could produce respectable offspring by breeding these varieties.

RKM

The most important piece of the puzzle your asking about is what you state above, from Kokugyo..."Kujaku - underlying netting pattern developed from Gin Matsuba, over which is the 'kohaku pattern' ". There is an old, some think "beat to death" saying, that, koi begin and end with Kohaku. The reason for this statement is that "most" all koi are judged based on a patterning "like" a kohaku. This doesn't mean that every variety is bred to kohaku, just simply that the "pattern" for achieving a harmonious balance start with the hi pattern as a base. Other colors, such as Sumi are there to "complement" not to disrupt the "Kohaku" pattern. So, when you are looking to purchase a fish which has red on it, first look at the red only and see if the pattern is pleasing to your eye. Then, look at, say, the sumi, to see if it is balancing the look of the fish and the red pattern. If it does, then that's the fish you want to buy. Again, as stated above, buying fish for breeding purposes is a whole different ball game. You look strictly for the highest quality coloration and forget pattern. It is not important in parent fish.

Now on to your main question - If I were going to breed to get Kujaku, I think I would use a hariwake (either orange or red) as a female, and a Gin Matsuba or two as the males. You'll get better fertilization of the eggs if you use two males instead of one. Of note, there are actually 3 colors of Kujaku - Red, Orange and Yellow. Yellow being the rarest, but if you ever get the chance to see one of high quality in person, you'll understand why I personally feel they are the most beautiful of all the Kujaku variety.

Good Luck on your quest - would love to hear more after you get your parent stock. Take some photos and post them for all of us to see. Should be great fun.

Regards

Mike