Salt; Sea Versus Epsom.....

[adreamer2]

I have heard that you can use epsom salts instead of pond salt....

Also, is it possible to use sea salt as opposed to pond salt?.....


Thx,
Adreamer2

[reptar15]

they aren't the same thing and they are used for different purposes. epsom salts act as a laxative to clean out the fish's system and can keep them calm when stressed out.

i think pond salt is basically pickling salt (non iodized salt) which i just buy from the grocery store. you can use sea salt they use for marine tanks but that would be a waste of money. i'm not sure about the sea salt they sell at grocery stores, mite contain some unwanted chemicals.

[REC]

We tend to think of "salt" as that stuff on the dining room table, sodium chloride. But to a scientist, "salt" means any chemical compound where the hydrogen ions are replaced with an acid. Other common "salts" are potassium chloride, calcium chloride, and as you mentioned, epsom salts, which is really magnesium sulfate. See my point??

"sae salts" sold in pet stores at a ridiculously high price are just evaporated out sea water. And this leaves us sodium chloride and nice minerals... but the addition of some trace minerals in sea salts does not justify their price. If you are using salt for your pond for whatever reason, use the solar salts sold as water softening agents. It should say 99.7% pure salt or something similar on the bag. Just don't use any salt with additives in it. And check kosher salts as they often have additives. Table salt with iodine is fine to use anytime.

Epsom salts are a completely different chemical than say sodium chloride especially in relation to its affect on fish. We use sodium chloride to increase the chloride ions in the water as it is the chloride ions that the fish really needs (not the sodium part) for its physiological processes. In essence we could achieve the same osmotic improvements with calcium chloride or potassium chloride but since sodium chloride is readily available and CHEAP, we use that. Plus, the fish require more sodium than calcium and potassium in the physiological diets. So regular old salt is what we use.

There are a number of old wives tales about epsom salts curing dropsy and being a laxative to fish. Most of what we read on some sites about epsom salts is just that... old wives tales. It does not cure dropsy (the theory being it will remove the toxins from the fish in the same manner it reduces edema in mammals).. We know dropsy to be complicated and epsom salts have no effect on any of the possible causes of dropsy. And as a laxative, the presence of magnesium sulfate in the water probably has some affect on the fish's digestion system. But how do we know a fish is constipated??? What high levels of epsom salts will do is help them pass intestinal worms.

Mostly epsom salts are used to raise the GH levels of ponds and tanks. It is the magnesium component of epsom salts that provides the mineral hardness for the water. While this is OK, it is not the best solution for raising GH levels as what the water really needs is solid calcium levels in the water both for fish physiological needs (especially for you guys who like BIG fish) but more importantly to hold the KH levels and ultimately the pH levels rock solid. This is a protracted chemistry discussion but we know that low calcium levels in the water can cause pH swings and even an abnormally high pH level even with high levels of buffers (KH).

So, that is the short answer about the differences between epsom salts and regular old salt. Want the long answer??

REC

[johnsmith]

Sea salt has buffers- pH is too high. JR

[junglegeorge12]

REC, good info. The answer is YES, I want to hear the long one too. I always enjoy the info in your posts. What are some good ways to increase calcium intake levels while keeping gh and kh the same? You already stated sodium is more important than calcium, so if folks have sodium bentonite based clay, and use salt, how can we get calcium into our koi for those of us who love HUGE koi and not raise our gh and kh? Can I just toss some garden dirt in there for that?

I like my ph at 6.8-7.4 and my gh and kh right where they are or even a tad lower, for the color development and other health benefits, and adding things that will raise kh or gh is just not an option to me. Does the growth food contain enough of it to sustain larger koi and maximum growth?

[PapaBear]

Thanks REC.
The long answer would be a very good thing. Fish/water health and maintenence is much discussed, but as you mentioned often mixed with old wives tales. I've often wished for better ways to maintain proper mineral levels for Koi health and growth along with promoting the right kind of bacterial action. I occasionally use "plaster pucks" to keep calcium carbonate levels in good shape and have considered adding salts and/or clays to them to enhance water conditions. The info you've already provided is great, but if you're up for more I'm all ears

[lildude]

You seem to know alot about salts,
What about Calcium carbonate for Raising the GH levels?
I used some in my pond and I already see a great change in Bio activity.

[Russell Peters]

Calcium carbonates are not for GH, they are for KH which is temporary. It is a must for any system.

[tom&zuma]

Wow Richard I was with you up until this - didn't you mean without iodine?

My experience with cheap "solar salt" from the big box hardware store is that it makes a lot of foam. It's made in a local back bay, not the cleanest if you get my drift. Back in the water heater department there are a number of varieties of more expensive salt, in 40lb bags, some are laced with additives like YPS but the pure stuff looks like new snow. It's a buck or two more but still cheap.

Tom

[<snip>If you are using salt for your pond for whatever reason, use the solar salts sold as water softening agents. It should say 99.7% pure salt or something similar on the bag. Just don't use any salt with additives in it. And check kosher salts as they often have additives. Table salt with iodine is fine to use anytime.

REC[/quote]

[Russell Peters]

[quote=tom&zuma]Wow Richard I was with you up until this - didn't you mean without iodine?

My experience with cheap "solar salt" from the big box hardware store is that it makes a lot of foam. It's made in a local back bay, not the cleanest if you get my drift. Back in the water heater department there are a number of varieties of more expensive salt, in 40lb bags, some are laced with additives like YPS but the pure stuff looks like new snow. It's a buck or two more but still cheap.

Tom


I have been using the cheap "solar salt" from the big box hardware stores for years and have never, ever had any foam. You must have a problem with your water.