KHV News...

[johnsmith]

David, Many of us have had problems with Doc J's behavior within the hobby over the years, but I don't think violence is the answer?! I know you don't really mean what you are saying about knocking his teeth out, but many do not know when you come up with these 'beating up someone' posts that you are just acting out. They might think you are serious! And in the world of grown ups that can have serious unintended consequences. If you don't agree with someone like Eric just say so and leave it at that. He is probably also venting and acting out- its human nature. My advise would be next time you want to beat someone up or type in your physical size and martial arts training, as you have done in the past- stop for a moment and think- am I doing this because my words are lacking?

[Nancy M.]

Quote: Originally Posted by junglegeorge12 Well at least we know part of the story now. Small things can be so much better than the worries of world domination and underhanded treachery from angry witches and shallow old men.

Jim
I don't think he wants to beat up Eric. I think he is talking about us. Awe JG, Einstein, David or whoever you wish to be. Get a grip, we all know that you wish that you had half the knowledge that JR has. I think it is called envy. Jr is well respected in this hobby, he has vast knowledge. You on the other hand have very good skills with google. FYI I have been called alot worse than witch.. LMAO at your attempts to hurt me.

[111whalen]

I hope more breeders and dealers in Japan will open up and let the truth be known. Otherwise, as stated in this thread, the exportation of koi will probably end. That would be truly sad but also motivating to the breeders in other places. It's strange how this disease keeps popping up-it has been destroyed in several places and yet continues to occur. Ray's questions are very appropriate. We need to find the sources and finish this thing off...

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nancy M. I received this a week ago.

Good info Nancy!!!

[PapaBear]

Quote: Originally Posted by 111whalen I hope more breeders and dealers in Japan will open up and let the truth be known. Otherwise, as stated in this thread, the exportation of koi will probably end. That would be truly sad but also motivating to the breeders in other places. It's strange how this disease keeps popping up-it has been destroyed in several places and yet continues to occur. Ray's questions are very appropriate. We need to find the sources and finish this thing off...

Therein lies the problem. In order to do so we would have to first develop a truly effective antiviral against KHV and literally innoculate not only every pond, but every lake, river, stream, tributary, which could possibly contain fish infected in the wild as well.
In the meantime it is truly in the best self-interest of every breeder worldwide to maintain an open and honest policy about any KHV outbreak. To do otherwise is to cut ones own throat. The ability to continue marketing infected Koi until you are discovered is a very temporary gain if it means your entire future and reputation are destroyed by secrecy and dishonesty. Hopefully every prefecture is wise enough to recognize that fact and follow the excellent example set by Momotaro last year. Their reputation has not only been preserved, but quite likely grown in stature due to their quick and public response to a costly situation.

[johnsmith]

O I get it Nancy! I thought he meant HE thought that knocking Erik's teeth out was good for the hobby. After rereading I see it is 'others' who's teeth getting knocked out would be good for the hobby! Yea, I think that's true then, he is still hurting from a former spanking and venting on another thread here. But my advise to David still stands, we all, especially the testosterone rich youngsters, have a tendency to act out when we have no other 'tools' at hand. And David, by 'tools', I'm NOT talking about resorting to the shovel again !

Peace, JR

[KoiCop]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nancy M. Jim I don't think he wants to beat up Eric. I think he is talking about us. Awe JG, Einstein, David or whoever you wish to be. Get a grip, we all know that you wish that you had half the knowledge that JR has. I think it is called envy. Jr is well respected in this hobby, he has vast knowledge. You on the other hand have very good skills with google. FYI I have been called alot worse than witch.. LMAO at your attempts to hurt me.

Thanks for the update.

And FYI, you're not the only one laughing at Puddle George -- King of the Pueto Rican Frog Pond circuit.

[MikeM]

The sad aspect of this outbreak is that the Niigata breeders have to be coming to the realization that no matter how hard they try to keep Niigata free of KHV, they simply cannot continue their ways...the customs that have been followed for generations. Such as trading brood fish, sharing the ungraded fry of a spawn, summering customers' fish that go home for the winter...

JR referred to an old TFH book in another thread, which got me to pull Axelrod's 1973 Koi Of The World off the shelf. It was a mesmerizing book when I first got in the late '70s. Now, so many of the supposedly grand koi look an awful lot like pond mutts! And the best are no better than ordinary nisai. Such progress in developing koi over 35 years, much because of the community of breeders sharing and trading. Post-KHV bio-security will have to come to Niigata, and with it things will change in ways we cannot foresee.

[johnsmith]

Yep, we've seen them come a long way since cira 1970! If you get the All japan series filled in or get a complete run of the early Rinko you will see the same- shockingly average fish by today's standards.

But what is interesting Mike, is that once in while in those old reviews you see a rather striking and remarkable gosanke. I guess it is an early glimpse of 'what was to come'? Of note, is the gosanke that won the All Japan ZNA show and then was quickly snatched up by Sakai ( SFF) and used as foundation stock. Unusual because show fish aren't usually used as brood stock much any more. At least not rountinely. Its as though there are 'roles' for good koi and a predetermined jouney for the super show fish verses the future breeder?

JR

[PapaBear]

Quote: Originally Posted by MikeM The sad aspect of this outbreak is that the Niigata breeders have to be coming to the realization that no matter how hard they try to keep Niigata free of KHV, they simply cannot continue their ways...the customs that have been followed for generations. Such as trading brood fish, sharing the ungraded fry of a spawn, summering customers' fish that go home for the winter... JR referred to an old TFH book in another thread, which got me to pull Axelrod's 1973 Koi Of The World off the shelf. It was a mesmerizing book when I first got in the late '70s. Now, so many of the supposedly grand koi look an awful lot like pond mutts! And the best are no better than ordinary nisai. Such progress in developing koi over 35 years, much because of the community of breeders sharing and trading. Post-KHV bio-security will have to come to Niigata, and with it things will change in ways we cannot foresee.

Perhaps new quarantine protocols can achieve the desired ends. Since there do seem to be temperature tolerant strains among carrier fish simply warming new arrivals in a qtank and waiting to see if they die isn't going to cut the mustard. Using several uninfected "canary koi" in a prolonged quarantine cycle would help prevent introducing infected carriers if that protocol is strictly and verifiably enforced. Ungraded fry swapping could still take place if a similarly strict quarantine methodology is utilized but it would be a considerable added expense for ungraded fry.

Perhaps the prefecture could establish a central "quarantine co-op" through which all exchanges could be processed. In that manner the operating expense could be shared and minimized while providing a central point of control and disease prevention. It would also make a strong statement to the world that the prefecture is seriously addressing the issue in an effective manner.

The issue that may be irreconcileable is summering customer Koi. The high cost of such a strict quarantine method could make it unaffordable for all but a handful of wealthy show fanatics.

Your point about the long term cost to the hobby is key. The tradition of exchange has made many improvements possible and if a safe, reliable way to keep that advantage cannot be found future refinements will be delayed by decades.