good learning experience

[Steve Nguyen]

during the ZNA Club meeting in May, I express interests in learning about tosai and someone there hand picked this fish for me. he said it should turn out nice in 2+ yrs so I should spend $20 and watch it grows. too bad, I won't get to see how it grows out now. hopefully, I will learn something in the process so I bought 5 fish for learning purpose. tell you the true, at that time, I was worry about keeping them alive. anyhow, this fish was doing well until last 3 weeks when I noticed the color started to fad away and fading fast. the other four fish have show no changes so far. my question is, does this has something to do with hard water or generic?

[luke frisbee]

shiro utsuri tategoi

[dick benbow]

Some of the better learning experiences can also be expensive, so I think you did alright on the cost of the lesson.

I feel that if anything to do with the water was that much off theothers would have also been affected. Since PH is more of a concern than hardness, I would be looking at that first. If your water is way too hard I would have thought the blacks would be more dominant....I'm leaning toward that particular individual and not the water conditions.

here's a note to the person who picked the koi out for you. In February a local dealer got a nice shipment of toshio sakai tosai in. Two friends of mine who live some 4-5 hrs away asked me to select for them what I felt were the better koi.
I selected 4, 3 of which seem to be turning out nicely, one kohaku went shiro muji within a month? The water it was in was first class and the beni looked deep and solid....So It doesn't matter how well you think you can pick-em...even some of the more experienced types can easily be kept humbled.....

But I commend you on buying a few of them and learning....

[Steve Nguyen]

indeed, it's worth while learning so far. plus the challenge of keeping them alive make the hobby more interesting.

around here, a pH of 8 or 9 is common. my reading is around low 8ish.

from what you said, it seems more of generic than anything else. also, it's a big gamble in buying tosai, not considering the high mortality rate.

the guy who picked this fish for me is really good. he said I should watch out for the blacks which won't show up for another yr or two. he said all the indications are there though so I guess I wait to see how those blacks turn out.

Steve

Quote: Originally Posted by dick benbow Some of the better learning experiences can also be expensive, so I think you did alright on the cost of the lesson. I feel that if anything to do with the water was that much off theothers would have also been affected. Since PH is more of a concern than hardness, I would be looking at that first. If your water is way too hard I would have thought the blacks would be more dominant....I'm leaning toward that particular individual and not the water conditions. here's a note to the person who picked the koi out for you. In February a local dealer got a nice shipment of toshio sakai tosai in. Two friends of mine who live some 4-5 hrs away asked me to select for them what I felt were the better koi. I selected 4, 3 of which seem to be turning out nicely, one kohaku went shiro muji within a month? The water it was in was first class and the beni looked deep and solid....So It doesn't matter how well you think you can pick-em...even some of the more experienced types can easily be kept humbled..... But I commend you on buying a few of them and learning....

[Steve Nguyen]

not too crazy about shiro utsuri but I take that too. if it turns out as predicted, the blacks will come out in a yr or two.

Steve

Quote: Originally Posted by luke frisbee shiro utsuri tategoi

[bekko]

I would first hope for a tancho showa, then hope for a shiro utsuri later.

[Steve Nguyen]

wouldn't that be great? It would be interesting to see if it turns into a tancho showa but changes are it might be shiro utsuri.

Steve

Quote: Originally Posted by bekko I would first hope for a tancho showa, then hope for a shiro utsuri later.

[Steve Nguyen]

what do you think? sumi will come out in a year or two? it put on at least a couple of inches already. interesting watching it grows.

Steve

[koiczar]

Steve

Over the last two seasons I have had the same thing happen. Not just to tosai either. One fish, two years ago was a Marudo sanke. Everything was going along fine. Then, we had a heat wave. The water temp went into the high 80s. Then it cooled off just as quickly. Right after the cooling off period, the sanke lost ALL it's hi in a week. No other fish was affected.

This year, same thing. Big heat wave, water up to 88F, then BANG!! Cool spell. Water went down 15 degrees in a week. Two weeks later, my 4 year old Sakuma Kohaku is about to become a kanoko kohaku or a shiro muji. No other fish affected. So, it's not just tosai that can be affected by changes in water conditions, but they are MORE susceptable, because they are still weaker. The picture of your showa tells a lot. Looking closely at the hi, there was a pretty good chance of this happening. The sashi and kiwa are both very blurry on the head. Looking at the tail (odome), again you see weak almost secondary hi. Now, looking at the shiro picture, you have a chance to end up with a decent looking shiro if the sumi develops properly. Good Luck and keep us posted.

Mike

[Steve Nguyen]

Mike,

good observations and thank you for sharing the knowledge. it definitely takes a trained eyes to spot them. I am not there yet but I am learning. I am not a big fan of utsuri but I may keep this one so I have a story to tell.

it's probably good idea to build pond deep enough so that water temperature doesn't fluctuate much during hot days.

Steve