Koi Food - Some Thoughts part 2

[Chris Neaves]

Good day to every one,

I have just trawled through the replies to my original post on koi food.

There are two critical realities associated with koi food.

Firstly: Genetics is the great leveler of the playing fields in our hobby. We seem to overlook this when debating koi food and other subjects pertaining to our hobby. Genetics dictates what will happen to the koi you purchase - should you house and raise it competently. Genetics weaves it's magic when we discover we have purchased a wonderful koi that no on else wanted. Or the koi that was left over in the sales pond turns out to be a great koi. The expensive koi from a "top" breeder looses its colour just like the ones you and I purchase from time to time is also governed by genetics.

We can go some way along the road of perusing the ultimate koi by selecting koi from known bloodlines. But this is no guarantee, they also degenerate, they also loose colour, they also develop poor body shapes.

The reason why large koi of high quality are so expensive? Because they are rare ....... not what Beulah Pukes the dealer down the road tells you!

So although bloodline koi from the top breeders spawn thousands and thousands of fry we only get a very few at the end of the line.

Secondly, it is irrelevant what secret concoctions koi breeders or dealers or koi keepers feed their koi. What is important is what you feed your koi AND more importantly the results you get.

I mentioned dampening, not soaking, the pellets and the improved results you can get. Another thought to help you get better results .....

Whilst it is difficult to be 100% sure what many manufacturers claim are in certain koi foods try using a koi food that has 40% protein - and use it throughout the year.

We were very disappointed to find many koi foods - mostly the imported proverbial red and green pellets - were no where near the nutritional values they claim. In several products that were analyzed claims of protein levels of between 36% and 38% were found to be 16 and 18% protein. Far too little for koi.

Regards,
Chris

[Nancy M.]

Chris

Excellent information.. Thank you for taking the time to post. Your post are always great reading.

[johnsmith]

Good stuff Chris. Could you, as a food manufacturer , address the nutritional value of :

a) a koi that eats 12 ounces of 18% protein food daily

Vs.

b) a koi that eats 24 ounces of an 18% protein food daily


In other words, how you expect this additional food intake to affect koi B vs koi A?


JR

[Chris Neaves]

Hi Jim,

Hope you are well today.



Sure: 2 + 2 = 4



Koi foods are not so simple. Protein is only a percentage of each pellet.

As you decrease the amount of protein another ingredient has to be increased (to get back to 100% for the pellet). And this is carbohydrate. The lower the protein levels the higher the carbohydrate level.

Some carbohydrate in a koi diet is essential. Too much is not good and will result in fatty deposits.

Each time you feed a pellet you are feeding a percentage of protein, a percentage of carbohydrate etc. etc.

Try feeding a higher protein pellet - but feed less quantity at each meal.

Just a bit of info - there is an uncomfortable shortage of fish meal world wide. The price of good quality fish meal jumped by nearly 50% last month. When this price increase filters through it's going to affect all koi foods that use fish meal as a protein source.



Regards,

Chris

[PapaBear]

Good follow up on the now hijacked thread you started .

I appreciate your point about the one thing completely out of our control being the genetics. They are only as good as the chromosomal pairs will allow them to be. It is our husbandry skills that will either maximize their potential or keep it from ever being known.

Your post makes a few more questions pop up for me regarding the ingredients and digestibility issues.

I'm sure we've all been down the road of feeding pricey pellets the Koi didn't like the taste of so we switch in search of something they like and then they eat like crazy but don't really grow well and make a ton of poop .

So what are the protien/carb/fat sources that are most digestible in a balanced KOI specific diet. All things being equal (water quality, temperature, genetics, etc...) how do soy, wheat, fishmeal, silkworm pupae, etc... stack up in the digestability department. After all, delivering nutrients they can actually digest in a well balanced diet is what we're all after.

[Chris Neaves]

Hi Larry,

Many koi foods add fish lure to the mix. Basically this is a powerful artificial chemical attractant. So you can feed them saw dust if you like!

Some koi will take to some foods others won't but not to worry if they are hungry they WILL eat.

As for protein sources: fish meal is the number 1. Its amino acid profile is the closest to what is required in koi. The problem with fish meal is its price and availability. All the other raw materials you mention such as soy, silkworm pupae are also good protein sources. Many formulations use a combination of various protein sources to achieve the desired amino acid levels and profile.

There is a drop in growth rates when the total fish meal content of a koi food is less than 30%. Not 30% protein level but 30% of the total formula.

The digestibility of all the things you mention is enhanced when the moisture is added to the meal mix and it is cooked. Just as our breakfast porridge digestibility is enhanced by cooking.

Carbs are an essential part of the pellets. Some carbohydrate is essential but the main purpose of carbohydrate is to deliver the nutrients (amino acids, lipids, vitamins, minerals, energy) to the gut of the fish in an aquatic environment. In other words if we threw in raw protein, vitamins, minerals into the pond for the fish a minute amount would be eaten as the rest would dissolve rapidly into the pond water.

Fats/lipids are obtained from adding marine fish oil to ten mix. Great for Omega 3 and Omega 6 fatty acids which are essential for every living cell and great for energy.

The digestive juices in a koi's stomach are very powerful and will digest most things. They are not called the pigs of the fish world for nothing.

Don't be afraid of solid waste. It is not a good thing when everything is digested and absorbed. Our doctors keep on hammering away at humans to eat more roughage to keep the gut moving. So to with fish.

Your filter should be able to handle everything thrown at it or it needs a re-think.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Chris

[kingkong]

Business is moving quickly along but with many bumps in the road. Right now, the strong demand and seasonal low production, seem to have created a flurry of panic buying - this means, prices will continue to rise as stocks of most popular grades of meal are at very low levels.

Remember now, including fishmeal at 3% of the diet, improves efficiency at about 8% - Good Day

[dick benbow]

what's the difference between whitefish meal and fishmeal?

[dick benbow]

Would be nice to get some input from Gene and Dan who are feeding a new food
mix and get their comment. Kinda interesting with what they are up to...seems a company we knew and loved with bacteria start for filters have ventured into the koi food world

[kingkong]

Quote: Originally Posted by dick benbow what's the difference between whitefish meal and fishmeal?

Good question. I think the word 'whitefish' is a generic term for many different fish.
The World's most processed fish is made from whole fish. There seems to be two basic categories of fish collecting for the meal industry. One is the use of collected fillet offal (heads, skeletons, trimmings left over from human edible portions.)
Number two and the most productive bulk quantity wise is collected by Industrial Fishery Catches or whole fish. These fish live in pelagic (open sea) zones of waters or oceans and are mobile and migratory species such as hering, mackeral and sardines. They are caught for the meal industry only. If I had to guess which of the two is called 'whitefish', I would say the 'Industrial catch' pelagic species rather than the offal.