Are domestic breeders good enough to grow quality Show Koi

[johnsmith]

The judges don't have a clue who owns fish at a koi show. It is in fact a rule of edicate that judges stay away from the show site while fish are being entered. The very first time judges see the fish is when they officially arrive at ring side and take 'the walk' around the tanks to get an idea of numbers, concentration of sizes, general quality and obvious contenders for GC.

I think I can tell 80-90% of the time whether a fish is US or Japanese once they are over 55-60 cm. I know the beginner might find this statement 'remarkable or farfetched' but it is true. Most advanced hobbyists can spot the difference. Its not all that hard when you've seen enough high class Japanese fish.

JR

[luke frisbee]

JR...get brady to koiflixx it

and so that's why i don't see a judge till much later...i can be so stupid

[junglegeorge12]

As for recognizing certain bloodlines, I could see that to an extent. Recognizing if those bloodlines were mated in the US or in Japan, impossible.

[jnorth]

Closed for obvious reasons.

edit-I am reopening this because it is a good thread and because many of you asked me to. As a moderator I do not like to edit people nor do I like to delete threads. I prefer to close them and leave them in plain sight so everyone can read and see why it was closed. In this case I have edited and will now reopen it. Please don't start throwing rocks at each other again. Thanks

[keokoi]

I guess the thread got reopened.. Good Job Jnorth...

Joe

[Nancy M.]

Thank you Jim, I have enjoyed reading this thread. Now guys back to the learning and debating (nicely).

[PapaBear]

Reopening this one with appropriate editing is a good move . Now lets everybody stay on topic so the beneficial parts of the debate can be heard without any distractions.

[Maurice]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnsmith I think I can tell 80-90% of the time whether a fish is US or Japanese once they are over 55-60 cm. I know the beginner might find this statement 'remarkable or farfetched' but it is true. Most advanced hobbyists can spot the difference. Its not all that hard when you've seen enough high class Japanese fish. JR

Interesting statement Jim.

So do you feel you've not seen domestic koi bred from good strong Japanese bloodlines and that is the reason you can tell them apart?

Or is it that they have not been raised in conditions to get the best from the koi?

Or something else?

I hope you will not be able to see the difference in koi produced by me? I'm doing things all wrong if you can.

Maurice.

[johnsmith]

Hi Maurice, did you get my email?

Interesting thing, on my 'beloved NI' I started a conversation with Mordi Haimi of Magnoy, mostly out of concern for his well being. But eventually about KHV and Israeli koi in general. In that conversation I asked to see some top Israeli stock. He was kind enough to send pictures- some nice hi utsuri and ochiba. But still I could tell immediately that they not Japanese stock even though they were nice and very colorful. In that case I suspect it is the water conditions, especially temperature that gives that look to the body? Just guessing of course.

In the case of US stock, there is no doubt that they are getting the color down and also the fundamental skin texture. This is what is making it harder to tell the little guys apart when it comes to Japanese vs US in some of the better stock.
But still, I have yet to see a size 6 USA fish that looks like a high class size 6 Japanese fish.

I have not seen your stock Maurice. And I know I erk you and annoy you to no end, so I doubt I will be invited over any time soon! But at some point I'd be interested in visiting when you invite some our mutual friends over.

JR

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by jnorth Closed for obvious reasons. edit-I am reopening this because it is a good thread and because many of you asked me to. As a moderator I do not like to edit people nor do I like to delete threads. I prefer to close them and leave them in plain sight so everyone can read and see why it was closed. In this case I have edited and will now reopen it. Please don't start throwing rocks at each other again. Thanks

Howabout, pillow fights? HAHAHAHA Jim your still Shiromuji-san to me and dont stop pinching tails because someone tells you too..HAHAHAHA