Are domestic breeders good enough to grow quality Show Koi

[Brutuscz]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori The Tancho on the 2 fish look weak, $2200 for a pair of Domestic Tancho's? Kind of pricey. It would be hard for me to swallow such a price if the Tancho disappeared, especially knowing they are Domestic. Plus, being in California where there are more than a handful of new and old dealers, why would you buy domestic anyways? If you shop around you could probably find a good deal or that diamond in the rough so to speak.

The real reason...Safety!!! Blackwater is a closed facility now...no new fish come in ever!! One of my local dealers ONLY sells blackwater creek...so, also a closed facility. I have piece of mind knowing I don't have to care which japanese breeder has khv or svc this month when I am selling fish. It doesn't affect me at all. I quarantine my personal japanese koi completely separate from the ones I sell. I can sleep at night knowing I am not going to wipe out some poor persons pond. After hearing a million or so stories of pond wipeout..why would I even get involved selling imports..I do better than most other ebay dealers who are selling japanese fish!!!

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brutuscz The real reason...Safety!!! Blackwater is a closed facility now...no new fish come in ever!! One of my local dealers ONLY sells blackwater creek...so, also a closed facility. I have piece of mind knowing I don't have to care which japanese breeder has khv or svc this month when I am selling fish. It doesn't affect me at all. I quarantine my personal japanese koi completely separate from the ones I sell. I can sleep at night knowing I am not going to wipe out some poor persons pond. After hearing a million or so stories of pond wipeout..why would I even get involved selling imports..I do better than most other ebay dealers who are selling japanese fish!!!

That's cool...but looking at the quality of the tanchos again, it looks on it way down, that's all I am saying. Hey KHV and SVC is everywhere man who is to say Domestic are far safer than Japanese? NO ONE IS SAFE!!! Peace of mind? What is that? Regardless domestic, japanese, black, white, kohaku or shittygoi nothing is safe....

I do better than most other ebay dealers who are selling japanese fish!!!

I dont really care for the fish on ebay regardless of it Domestic or Japanese. Ebay is a niche market, if you do well in it good!!! Proud of you!!! If you out sell a guy selling Japanese crappagoi than that is good. You can only expect so much from fish bought from ebay....and I do mean so much....

[Brutuscz]

I mean, I have no trouble selling my fish, even though they are domestic. They go just as quickly as the imported fish...and the prices are similar. I do it mostly for my own enjoyment...so, to have to worry a whole lot about khv would not be worth it to me. It has, kind of, made me an advocate for domestic koi. Being a koi kichi, I certainly know the difference between a domestic kohaku and a grand champion kohaku from Sakai!!! Same planet....Different worlds!!!

[Brutuscz]

oh...and I don't own those tancho's. My wholesaler has them, and I simply listed them...with a little something extra for myself. Many people were interested in them...lots of emails, but no buyer. Oh well, no harm, no foul. It was worth a shot!!!

[dick benbow]

When you deal with moral issues, like what group of dealers could best provide the variety of diseases available, you can influence other's decisions unjustly. If people like chicken little , believe the sky is falling then in effect it is.......

The truth is any fish from any dealer could have been exposed. I commend the intent of the breeder who closes their facility in an effort to not expose any more than before. But the truth of the matter is the horse has been out the barn door and by closing it now, isn't gonna bring it back.

I think you buy koi from a dealer of import or domestic ( or both) that after you have seen their facilities and talked to them about their prevention, qt, facilities
etc that you can establish a confidence with. But here's the bottom line Ladies and gentlemen

Ultimately you are responsible for the health of your koi. Please establish a state of the art QT pond and learn how to use it with the ability to heat and involve one of your own resident koi as a qt resident during the test period.
I know this has been my central theme during most of these threads relating to concerns about KHV and others. and getting back to fables like chicken little I don't want to be viewed as the little boy who cried wolf so often that people tuned out till he showed up at the door.

I hope you'll continue to support your hobby with the joy of a new addition to the family. just make sure the adoption process goes thru the protective process of QT.

[Brutuscz]

...I do want to mention, I am just discussing my experience with domestic koi. Not trying to get people to be afraid of imported koi..or boost sales for american koi. The thread began as a discussion on the quality of domestic breeders...and lets keep it that way. It is an excellent topic. So..to that end, I would like to see some other pics of good domestic koi!! Not just my own. Remember...a picture is worth a thousand words!! Where is Brady and Brett when you need them?!?!?

[Sangreaal]

This is a 17" California bred kohaku sold on eBay, and there are more where she came from:


You call this "crapagoi?"

eBay is not a "niche" market. It is a world market of over 80 million people from all over the world. Can you find crapagoi? Oh yeah, in droves. Can you find top quality? Of course you can, but you have to shop just like you would at your local market.

Regarding the KHV issue, you're right Tonio. No one is safe anywhere. However, that doesn't mean that precautions shouldn't be taken. If you had a state of the art breeding facility with thousands (if not millions) of top quality Japanese koi, would you want to risk infecting the whole operation with even one KHV carrying import? A carrier is a fish that may have survived an outbreak but still carries the live virus, even though it will never get sick from it. (Read http://www.koihealth.org/) The disease originated in Japan, just like the bird flu originated in China. Carriers can infect the whole world without ever getting sick themselves. If I had as much to lose as our top American breeders, I'd close my facility to incoming fish indefinately until a vaccine that really works is developed and distributed.

This thread is not about KHV, eBay, or dealer practices, it is about American breeders and what they have to offer to the show circuit that can compete with Japanese bred and grown koi. Let's remember that, please?

Marie

[Brutuscz]

I love that kohaku...almost went after her myself!! The breeder wont release the name of his farm though...anyone know who it is? He has real nice kohaku and sanke.

[aquitori]

In a few years Domestic koi may be at the same level as Japanese koi. But my question is: Should they be the same price as a Japanese koi?

[Sangreaal]

You shouldn't have let that one get away either! *slaps us both for being so dumbstruck*

His name is Richard Rombold and his facility is in Fresno, CA. He is also a member of this board, though he has not posted in the forum. His koi are to die for, and I think enough people that have bought his koi and are enjoying them in their ponds have convinced him to finally release his farm's name. I will leave that to him.

Here are some more of his koi:







Any questions?

Marie