Are domestic breeders good enough to grow quality Show Koi

[aquitori]

Let's clear things up, the term "Show Quality" should never be used and if anyone buys a koi on the sales pitch of it being "Show Quality" has to be examined for mental health. No fish is considered "Show Quality" until it is entered and also it has to win to be considered "Show Quality".

Anyways, I dont think there is a big enough Show to truely see how a Domestic Koi will do in the ring. Like I have said before, I have yet seen a big American domestic to take GC. I have seen Taiwanese Koi bigger than 34" that could take a title anywhere....

[bekko]

In the past, there have been discussions here and yonder about the practice of bringing in a Japanese "ringer" for entry in a US show. Western koi breeders will know they have come of age when one of their fish is taken to Japan and is competitive in a Japanese show.

Koi breeding is a Japanese art form which some in the west are trying to emulate. Its sort of like a Japanese musical group trying to write and play rock-and-roll or jazz. The music enthusiast snickers at the Japanese attempts at rock-and-roll and chides them for not having the creative juices to develop their own art form. On a personal level, the US fish breeder has to ask them self why they are satisfied trying to emulate, rather than create something which is uniquely american.

-steve hopk

[KoiCop]

Hello Steve,

Good points, all.

Quote: Originally Posted by bekko In the past, there have been discussions here and yonder about the practice of bringing in a Japanese "ringer" for entry in a US show. Western koi breeders will know they have come of age when one of their fish is taken to Japan and is competitive in a Japanese show. -steve hopk

Touché

Quote: Originally Posted by bekko Koi breeding is a Japanese art form which some in the west are trying to emulate. Its sort of like a Japanese musical group trying to write and play rock-and-roll or jazz. The music enthusiast snickers at the Japanese attempts at rock-and-roll and chides them for not having the creative juices to develop their own art form.

This goes to the crux of the issue. Most left-brained Western posters think: Pedigreed koi + pond = GC. Unfortunately, they're looking through the wrong end of the telescope. As important as genetics and water quality are, it's truly as much of a societal and cultural thang.

Quote: Originally Posted by bekko On a personal level, the US fish breeder has to ask them self why they are satisfied trying to emulate, rather than create something which is uniquely american.

On a positive note here, Brady is working to create an distinctly American koi -- and I believe his New Age Showa holds great promise for the future.

[KoiCop]

Luke called for photos of domestic wannabe GC's. So -- where are they?

[Brutuscz]

We are not JUST talking grand champion here. I recently went back to koi-bito issue 9 ..the wakagoi show. Yes...no domestic kohaku that good I know of..but, in other varieties, right up there. Take shusui for instance...many of the shusui that placed did not impress me that much. I have seen domestics just as good.

[KoiCop]

Quote: Originally Posted by luke frisbee PB has got me to think... American breeders are either fools, lazy, misguided, inept, or just plain dumazzes. The ONE big thing the japanese do not have that American breeders Have PLENTY of is LAND for Mud ponds for growing out their best stock.... And to the few Domestic breeders that read this...don't tell me you ain't all of the above...SHOW ME! with pics of what ya got in the "Special Customer Pond"

Here's Luke's thread-starter -- only he can speak to what he was (or was not) talking about.

But -- I'll bet he wasn't talking 'bout no stinkin' lil 8" shiny-goi, 'cause when ya say "Show me the Money Pix!" you're probably not talkin' 'bout pennies, nickles and dimes.

My guess: We're talking big, here, and we're talking gosanke. As in GC.

Luke: What say you?

[KoiCop]

on the outside chance I was being overly nuanced: If you want to talk about the "Nobody Cares But Their Owners" sizes and varietal classifications, please refer to my post #38 (this thread).

[luke frisbee]

i say Koicop didn't start in the Blue SRA's.

[Brutuscz]

Some updated pics of these three. Took them today, just for fun. Good to compare them to my last years photos..track the development of some domestic koi. Improving steadily!!!

[Brutuscz]

Quote: Originally Posted by KoiCop on the outside chance I was being overly nuanced: If you want to talk about the "Nobody Cares But Their Owners" sizes and varietal classifications, please refer to my post #38 (this thread).

I don't know...its nice to win kokugyu at any size. Best in variety...nice also. I don't see it as a nobody cares but the owner,type of thing...but, just for the record, how many Grand Champions are currently in your pond? Just curious?
I'm sure it matters to hosokai..he wins best asagi....and omosako for best shiro utsuri!!! Even though those varieties will never win Grand Champion...correct?!?!