Are domestic breeders good enough to grow quality Show Koi

[Sangreaal]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori Let me ask you this, what did that Kohak go for? Size? Age? Bloodline of Oyagoi?This is the first piece of info I need. Richard's stocks aren't bad. I just dont know what his fish are going for.

Bloodline: 100% Dainichi kohaku since 1993.

[kevan]

Hello again Marie,

thanks for the info,

i just checked out some more of Richards koi on ebay and i must say he is as good as many general Japanese breeders already, im not easily impressed and im not kidding and some can even scoff but for me its all about skin and body and some of his koi at the size just cant be beaten. im sure the top Japanese breeders can do a little better in the biggest sizes, but i would bet that many japanese breeders would be very impressed with some of these koi...if you know any just...ask them!

now the important part in order to get to the top of the game is just how big do Richards top koi grow?

if he can reach 80cm with his top koi then i think theres gonna be a shakeup at some USA shows coming rather soon. if this happens then domestic koi will loose the stigma and start to really fly.

now i guess we all want to know...does Richard have a secret pond of hidden 80cm showstoppers?!!

also we shouldnt forget that Koi Water Barn in the uk(supplier of the all japan grand champion) and Sakai stockists are starting to breed koi and they have a serious opporation as well.

Maurice is also doing very well in the UK with UK KOI especially his growth rates, but so far for me Richard has the x factor of domestic breeders. but domestic koi are starting to get serious.

if i have left any domestic breeders out im sorry but please join in and post the best you have...im sure wed all love to see more?

KB.

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sangreaal Bloodline: 100% Dainichi kohaku since 1993.

Good bloodlines...Well keep us up to date on your fish and how they develop.

[johnsmith]

I smell something 'fishy'? JR

[luke frisbee]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnsmith I smell something 'fishy'? JR

have you picked out your next screen Name joan?

[koiczar]

How about "Fun with Dick and Jane"?LOL!!

[Sangreaal]

Quote: Originally Posted by kevan Hello again Marie, thanks for the info, i just checked out some more of Richards koi on ebay and i must say he is as good as many general Japanese breeders already, im not easily impressed and im not kidding and some can even scoff but for me its all about skin and body and some of his koi at the size just cant be beaten. im sure the top Japanese breeders can do a little better in the biggest sizes, but i would bet that many japanese breeders would be very impressed with some of these koi...if you know any just...ask them! now the important part in order to get to the top of the game is just how big do Richards top koi grow? if he can reach 80cm with his top koi then i think theres gonna be a shakeup at some USA shows coming rather soon. if this happens then domestic koi will loose the stigma and start to really fly. now i guess we all want to know...does Richard have a secret pond of hidden 80cm showstoppers?!! also we shouldnt forget that Koi Water Barn in the uk(supplier of the all japan grand champion) and Sakai stockists are starting to breed koi and they have a serious opporation as well. Maurice is also doing very well in the UK with UK KOI especially his growth rates, but so far for me Richard has the x factor of domestic breeders. but domestic koi are starting to get serious. if i have left any domestic breeders out im sorry but please join in and post the best you have...im sure wed all love to see more? KB.

I guess that the answers to both of those questions will have to come from those that have bought and are growing out Richard's koi. The furthest he has grown them out himself is to the 2 year old 20+ inch size before selling them. We already know how expensive this hobby is--imagine the expense of doing a comprehensive breeding program. Every last square inch of pond space at a breeders' facility is pretty much taken up by the produce of spawning which, even after extensive culling, is a LOT of fish! Richard's is no exception. It is a luxury to have a pond or ponds strictly for growing out and finishing koi. He doesn't have that luxury yet.

I guess it's up to those of us that purchase his koi to grow them out as they should be and show them to the world.

Marie

[Brutuscz]

I really think the answer to this thread will come when some american koi win some shows. I definitely think it will happen soon. Who the breeder is, and the variety that wins...has yet to be determined. But, don't be surprised when it happens!!!

[dcny]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brutuscz But, don't be surprised when it happens!!!

I don't know about the rest of the country, but I would be surprised if it happened out on west coast in the next few years. The sheer number of quality koi dealers out here make it less probable. With that many quality dealers, the opportunity (and cost) to get top quality Japanese fish are much better.

I think we will get there someday but for the short term JR's dollar should be safe. It would be interesting to see what a top domestic koi could look like raised along side it's import counterpart by one of our advanced KB hobbyist. I'd be very interested in seeing a second (and third) installment of MikeM's rainbow of showa thread or maybe Dick B starting one on his Quality koi asagi along with any Japanese asagi of a similar age.

-Dan

[johnsmith]

This is an enlightening thread. It seems the more you know about Japanese quality the harder it is to believe that our first generation can compete with Grand Champion type Japanese stock?
In a competitive US show, the GC will likely be a nice quality 28- 30 inch gosanke. And although I've seen some very nice USA babies, I have yet to see a 29 inch domestic gosanke that looks like a 29 inch Japanese gosanke?
I know that every time one of these threads gets started, it always sounds like the Japanophiles and Koi Kichi Elite are putting down the western breeder. But in truth, to believe that lone individuals coming from the hobby side to outperform the production of the Japanese breeders is kinda a put down of those Japanese Breeders?! I mean, to say that generations of an organized National koi farmers union, of 50 years official standing and 50 more 'informal years, with millions and millions of yen invested, with generational knowledge and with the best of the best breeding stock, producing perhaps BILLIONS of fry to be culled down to thousands, can be bested in ten years by a handful of independents is really quite amazing! Don't ya think???
JR